Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us at this press conference today with the Independent International Commission of Inquiry on Ukraine.
As you know, the Commission was created by the Human Rights Council in March of 2022 to investigate human rights violations in the context of the aggression against Ukraine by the Russian Federation.
We're pleased to have with us today all three members of the Commission who wanted to take this opportunity to take your questions following their presentation of their latest report to the Human Rights Council this morning.
In the middle, we have the Chair of the Commission, Mr Eric Mercy, and to his right, Mr Pablo de Grave, and on my right, Mrs Brenda Grover.
Now we'll start off with opening remarks by each of the Commissioners and then we'll open the floor to your questions to those of you in the room and online.
So we are here to share with you the main issues in the report we just shared with the Human Rights Council earlier today.
One of our most important new findings concerns Russian authorities deportation of children to the Russian Federation or their transfer within occupied areas.
In the context of the full scale invasion of Ukraine.
On on Ukraine and based on new evidence, the Commission has now concluded that the Russian authorities committed two types of crimes against humanity, deportation and forcible transfer of children, as well as their enforced disappearance.
And given the gravity of these crimes, the Commission this week also presented a conference room paper with further details about the Russian authority's deportation and transfer of Ukrainian children.
Another topic in our report presented today focus on the conduct of trials against Ukrainian civilians and prisoners of war in the Russian Federation courts.
The Commission found that the Russian authorities have systematically fabricated evidence presented during the trials, including by using torture, and that the courts did not comply with fair trial guarantees.
The Commission has also investigated the circumstances of foreign nationals that have been recruited to fight together with the Russian Armed Forces, and many of those recruits were deceived, lured from abroad to the Russian Federation, and then coerced to be fighting.
In addition to these three topics, which I just mentioned in an introductory way, the Commission investigated the treatment of troops within the Russian Armed Forces.
We interviewed 85 soldiers who had deserted.
Most of them testified about extreme violence and coercion which their commanders subjected them to, demonstrating a total disregard for human life and dignity.
Turning now to Ukraine, the Commission has analysed ruling of its Supreme Court relating to the offence of collaborative activities in the Ukrainian Criminal Code.
And finally, the Commission has also investigated violations committed during mobilisation for the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
More generally, let me emphasise that the Commission's investigations over 4 mandates now provide a disturbing account of crimes and violations that have been committed in the context of the full scale invasion.
We remain deeply concerned at the scale, magnitude and gravity of these violations and their impact on the affected populations.
My fellow Commissioners will now address the Commission's conclusions and findings in more detail.
Thank you very much for your participation.
On the issue of children, the Commission has so far verified the deportation and transfer of 1205 children from Russian occupied areas in Ukraine to the Russian Federation or to other occupied areas in Ukraine.
The Commission is of course aware of many other cases.
The Russian authorities claimed these relocations were humanitarian evacuations for safety reasons, but the Commission found that four years later, 80% of the children from the documented cases have not been returned.
This contravenes international humanitarian law under which evacuations can only be temporary for compelling reasons of health, medical treatment for safety, instead of establishing mechanisms to facilitate the children's return.
Russian authorities, following a carefully organised plan and pursuant to a policy conceived and executed under the leadership at the highest level of the Russian Federation state apparatus, have arranged for the children's long term placement with families or institutions in 21 regions of the Russian Federation and in occupied areas of Ukraine.
The Commission has therefore concluded that the Russian authorities committed crimes against humanity by deporting children to the Russian Federation or forcibly transferring them to other areas they occupied in Ukraine.
They also committed crimes against humanity of enforced disappearance of children by deliberately withholding information about their fate or whereabouts to their parents or legal guardians.
In addition, they committed a war crime of unjustifiable delay in the repatriation of civilians by not facilitating the return of children.
As already mentioned, we also focused on the conduct of trials by Russian Federation courts in the context of the full scale invasion of Ukraine.
Civilians and prisoners of war from Ukraine were charged with terrorism, espionage and violent seizure of power, convicted and punished to harsh and long criminal sentences, including life imprisonment.
Russian authorities have systematically used evidence that they fabricated or obtained by means of torture or I'll treatment to incriminate the accused.
The courts have disregarded the fair trial guarantees, including the presumption of innocence, the non retroactivity of laws, the right not to be compelled to confess guilt.
The investigations of the Commission point to a lack of independence and impartiality of the courts, with predetermined verdicts and the guilt of the accused assumed from the outset.
Turning to the issue of foreign nationals recruited to fight with the Russian Armed Forces, the Commission found that these recruits come from 17 globally dispersed countries.
As mentioned by the Chair, many were deceived and lured from abroad to the Russian Federation with the false promise of work.
They were coerced into signing contracts written in Russian language, which they did not understand, and then sent to the front lines.
To investigate the treatment of troops within the Russian Armed forces, the Commission interviewed 85 soldiers who had deserted.
Most of them testified about extreme violence and coercion arbitrarily ordered or practised by the commanders against their own men.
They reported soldiers described being treated like cannon fodder.
They reported the practise to shoot soldiers, carry out mock executions, severe beatings, tying them to trees or placed in pits.
Their testimony speak of a total disregard for human life and dignity.
The Commission has continued to document cases of sexual violence committed by Russian armed forces.
In one case, a girl as young as 13 years was the victim of rape.
In another, a woman had a child as a result of rape.
As regards the Supreme Court of Ukraine rulings on the issue of collaborative activities, the Commission has found that when considering lawful activities under international humanitarian law, the Supreme Court failed to take into account this body of law, which obliges the occupying power to continue essential services for civilian in territories under their control.
Finally, we documented violations reported during mobilisation for the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
These include irregular administrative detention, lack of access to lawyer and hurried medical examinations.
Instances of violence have been recorded against conscientious objectors, regardless of their readiness to carry out alternative civil service.
And with this, we close the statement.
Now we'll open the floor to questions.
We'll start with some of those in the room.
If you could please start on the 1st row, if you could identify yourself in the media outlet that you work for Sure, Swiss news agency.
Thanks for the the press conference.
The first one on the children.
So you mentioned the high, high levels of the state apparatus which are involved.
ICC directly pointed out on a bunch of people that mean the Russian President Vladimir Putin.
And I think there was also that woman who was commissioner in the report.
Is it on purpose or is it that you haven't collected enough evidence to point directly on the the Russian President?
That's the first question.
And then on the question of the foreign nationals, do you plan to investigate further that question because there is no legal qualification of what that would mean in terms of international crime in the report?
And, and on the Russian troops, it seems that commanders were, were directly pointed out by the, the soldiers that you were able to, to interview.
Do you plan to establish a list of commanders that you could convey to an international tribunal?
I'd like to answer the first question in the report you just referred to.
It was the March report which we delivered today.
But as I mentioned there is also a second report which is the so-called conference room paper while and that conference room paper deals exclusively with children.
It's a document about 19 pages, which has no other topic than the transferred and deportation of children.
And in that document you will find details including of persons we consider belonging to the higher apparatus of the the state at the government level, at the regional level.
And the details will follow from that report.
So we had indeed investigated that this and names follow from the report.
Foreign nation on the treatment of Russian troops by their own commanders and the picture that we got from the interviews of soldiers that had deserted this pretty grim.
Some of the treatment that is imposed on them we describe, of course, in an abbreviated form, but it is not precisely a picture of respect for the dignity of soldiers themselves.
Whether we have identified you ask whether we have identified commanders.
There is, of course, information about the units in which this took place, the, and therefore it would not be difficult to identify commanders, specific commanders, from the beginning.
The Commission has said that it will do its best to compile at least of those responsible, and this is another topic in which we will continue to try to do that.
But the important thing is that we have documented that these are not isolated instances, for example, of disorderly conduct by particularly violent rank and file soldiers.
But then this is treatment that took place with the knowledge, sometimes with the order and in fact sometimes with the participation of commanders.
So we're not talking here about purely isolated events.
On the recruitment of foreign nationals, as we have already mentioned in our report that our present investigations have shown that they are from 17 countries and we see that these are globally dispersed.
They're from Latin America, Asia, Africa, very different and diverse countries.
We are continuing the investigations into this, so we will not be able to prejudge what is ahead, but what is what can be seen is the coercion, the deception that is involved and how they are being then compelled to go to the front lines while they are lured in with work and other promises.
It's also would be relevant to mention here that the circumstances can vary depending on where they're coming from and for what reason, including those who are already in detention.
Foreigners are coerced into signing and going to the front lines.
Let's go follow up on that.
So in on the general principle, could that amount without prejudging whether it's the case here, but could that amount to war crimes or even crimes against humanity when you coerce foreign national and you're recruiting for your own forces, your own troops.
So that's why we are still we've just begun this level of investigation.
As we go deeper, we'll see if it meets the threshold of war crimes that would then qualify and come to that determination.
First on abductive children, you have confirmed 1205 cases, but is this a big part of the total?
What is your estimation of of the total of deported children to Russia?
I also noticed in the report that some of them were adopted by families in very remote places like Siberia or the Arctic.
These are places that we often associate with prisons for for dissidents.
So I wonder if this is like a kind of punishment for for these children.
Do you do you know what are the conditions of the children that are in in such remote places?
I would like to answer the first question.
The Commission has focused on these about 1200 persons.
We are convinced that there are thousands based on the information we have, partly these 1200 and partly other information that we have available, but it is impossible for us to quantify the total number.
The methodology of the Commission is to go into individual cases, follow the cases and see exactly how the itinerary of each child went on and what happened during the period.
Some stayed deported or transferred for a limited period, others have stayed until now, as I mentioned, and 80%, as already recalled, have not come back.
And this is a very meticulous approach.
Our resources are limited and we then focus on the numbers we have mentioned.
But to quantify the total number in the country is not our task.
We are aware that different numbers have been launched over the years, but we have to stand for what transpires of our investigations.
And then on the question of the treatment of children and where they have ended up, of the 1025 cases that we have investigated closely, they have ended up, as was mentioned, in 21 different regions in the Russian Federation or in occupied territories.
How the 1025 children that we document have been treated, it is impossible to tell, but we do have evidence from some of the 20% that have returned of some of different types of mistreatment, Children not receiving sufficient or necessary medical care, some children not receiving sufficient nourishment.
We have one case in which the family in which an adolescent was placed was willing to call the authorities, the police authorities, because the this adolescent kid expressed that it's hard to return to Ukraine and to his family.
Another tragic case of a similar nature, but which ended in the suicide of this young adolescent.
So I mean we have evidence of children not only being placed thousands of kilometres away from their place of origin, having been taken under coercive circumstances and without their consent of a parent or legal guardians or representatives, and once placed in what seemed to be either adoption processes or long term placements.
Some of them have received I'll treatment.
So again, how many of those?
It is very difficult for the Commission to tell, but we do have stories of children not necessarily being placed in lobbying and carrying circumstances.
Let's take another question online, this one from Nick *******.
Bruce from The New York Times.
Yeah, Thank you for taking my question and thank you for the briefing.
Coming back on the question of children, I just wondered if there had been any progress in establishing any kind of meaningful communication with Russian authorities on the outstanding cases of children and whether or not there has been.
I wondered whether you had been able to identify any particular pattern or criteria that were used for deciding where these children were going to go.
Were they sent to particular areas, for example, that might have lacked population or, or where there were families which had lost family members or communities that had lost members to to the war and they were trying to sort of replenish the human stock for one of the better argument?
And secondly, in relation to the recruitment of foreign nationals, we have heard quite a lot from African countries that have seen their nationals disappear into the military.
I wonder if you could just detail how many of the 17 countries you have identified are African and which of the other countries that have been involved in this?
If I can start with the answering the second question first on the foreign nationals and about how many are from the continent of Africa.
From our investigations, which as I mentioned earlier, we have noticed that they are from 17 nationals of 17 countries.
Out of that we do have Somalia, Kenya, Uganda, Ghana and Egypt is here in the amongst those who are from the African countries.
So there are different countries across the world from where these foreign nationals are being duped to deceived and lured into the the Russian armed forces, compelled and coerced to fight there.
That's what our present investigations have shown.
As was stated earlier, the investigations are ongoing and as we go deeper into this, we, we are aware that they are nationals from other countries also and then the legal conclusions will be derived accordingly.
Would you like to take that on the question of children?
You can Thank you very much for your participation again in one of our conferences.
1st, the Commission has submitted 39 written requests for information about different issues, including the issues or the issue of children to the Russian authorities, and we have never received a reply.
So the answer to your first question is there has been unfortunately no meaningful communication established with the Russian Federation, which insists that it does not recognise the Commission.
And that of course doesn't make the clarification of cases, including, for example, the total numbers of children, which continues to be unknown.
It doesn't make the resolution of that, even that basic question easy.
Your the second part of your question about whether we have detected that pattern of where children end up, I have to say no, the answer is we have not detected a clear pattern, just the multiplicity of regions in which they end up.
And I have to say not all of them are remote regions makes it very difficult to say that also in relation to Antonio's previous question that there is a sort of punitive system of allocation or more generally in response to yours that there is a clear pattern that emerges in the placement of children.
We have not been able to establish that.
Just to supplement what was said, what we have been able to establish is that long term placements in families preferring adoption and or in institutions, but to make long term placements of children, which actually further reinforces our legal conclusions that this is completely in violation of international law.
Could also mention that we have been able to see the general itineraries of the children.
So for instance, we know that most of them were from 5 oblasts in Ukraine, Dornetsk, Haikiv, Harrison, Luhansk and Mikolayev.
And then this started the week before the Russian full scale invasion.
That was the beginning of this initiative.
And then some of them were then placed in temporary transit centres in the Russian Federation or in occupied territories and then further deported to Russian.
So that's also a methodology which is of a general character which I think could be mentioned in connection with that that those issues raised in that question.
If you could please go ahead.
It's now on the question of the foreign troops fighting for Russia.
I noticed that in the list of 17 countries is not North Korea, which we we are aware that North Korean troops have been in in the war of grain.
Is that a different circumstance compared with the other?
Yes, you do see that North Korea is not one of the countries we've mentioned because we are making a distinction here of the circumstance and situations of these foreign recruits.
As elaborated and detailed in our report, the 17 countries from which the nationals of who have who we have investigated cases about are those who have been through deception or coercion being compelled.
Either they are living there and are in prison or they have been lured through promise of work with false promises and upon arrival, coerced into signing contracts and being thrown to go and fight at the front lines.
And therefore, we are making a distinction from these foreign nationals to those who may be joining otherwise for other reasons.
Next, we'll go online to Scott Jacobson.
If you could just identify the outlet that you're working for.
International policy guide with regards to the 17 nations and foreign nationals that has been taken or coursed into certain similar armed forces.
Obviously there's more investigation to be done there for regional or even individual nation patterns.
Have there been any distinctive differences in these styles or tone of coercion that you have found in this particular investigation?
I'm sorry, in the style, I missed the last part of the question, Scott.
The style or the tone or the nature of the the coercion.
So in other words, is it broadly identical or are there differences per reagent risk?
So what the general statement that can be made is that there is a deception and coercion in the sense that people are promised civilian jobs, for example, and when they arrive, they discover they're handed a contract in Russian language, which they do not understand course to sign it, and then sent to fight the type, the particular type of deception, for example, what kind of job is offered before departure?
I think it's difficult to say that it's exactly the same.
What is true is that they end up not being offered civilian jobs, that they end up being sent to the front very shortly afterwards.
So I mean, that's what the evidence we have allows us to say with certainty.
If we do we have any more questions from the room or online?
Joanne Michelson, I'm a freelance journalist from Sweden.
Regarding the foreign fighters or those people who came to Russia, a huge number came from South Asia also.
And for example, Sri Lanka sent a delegation to Moscow to discuss this issue and to stop from further recruiting.
Have you been in contact with them and regarding those people from Sri Lanka?
So Sri Lanka is definitely one of the countries that we have mentioned in our report as where foreign fighters are being recruited from and again, being lured or brought in under deception.
The first those nationals were mentioned, the investigation has either been through an interview with the national concerned or with their families.
And yes, you're right in mentioning South Asia has been, we've seen India, Nepal, Sri Lanka, from all three countries people have been brought.
And in most of those circumstance as was being asked in the earlier question, in these particular circumstance, it is a promise of a job.
And so people are actually coming there hoping, thinking some civilian employment is being offered.
And upon arrival, they are then taken away by the military authorities and compelled.
Perhaps it would be useful to give you the full list of countries because we have read the African countries only and Rinda just mentioned some of the Asian countries.
So if you don't mind, I'll just go through the list and you get an impression of what we said.
It's a globally distributed group of countries, so some of them in Asia, some of them in Latin America, some of them in Africa and in the Borderlands of Europe as well.
So Azerbaijan, Belarus, Brazil, Cuba, Egypt, Ghana, India, Iraq, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Nepal, Somalia, Sri Lanka, Tajikistan, Turkey, Uganda and Yemen are the 17 countries that we have been able to verify and to establish without doubt of the presidents of the of the foreign fighters.
We are of course aware of many other countries that have participated in this, but we are quite disciplined in terms of our evidentiary basis and therefore these are the 17 countries about which we have sufficient evidence to publish in the report.
But the investigations continue.
I just wanted to emphasise that this is not just an African phenomenon.
And again, Turkey, for example, in very close to Europe is also a country from which there are foreign fighters in the Russian Federation.
OK, we have a follow up from Nick from the New York Times.
Just in relation to foreign fighters, again, you mentioned executions.
I appreciate the difficulty of getting the detail on this, but I just wonder if you've got any sense of the prevalence or the frequency of such executions or the number of people and whether the treatment that they describe is common to all the nationals that are participating in the fighting or whether there were particular groups of nationals or particular countries that were singled out for particular treatment.
When we mentioned in the report about the ill treatment and torture that is being meted out to by commanders and seniors to their own troops within the Russian Armed Forces, it is actually not limited only to the foreign nationals.
It is the investigations and interviews of 85 soldiers who have deserted the Russian armed forces has confirmed that this is to Russian soldiers also.
And with the, the kind of torture that we've described, whether it is putting them in pits or tying them to trees or mock executions and actual executions, this is not confined only to the foreign nationals.
It is inflicted to the Russian soldiers also.
And that is why our our conclusion there that this this practise seems to be systematically of violent treatment to their own soldiers when they are either unfit or there is no evacuation plan or they are not equipped with enough arms to even go for combat.
Being coerced in those circumstances.
And any refusal then leads to this kind of violent treatment being inflicted on them.
This is a practise that has been found within the armed forces.
Do we have any follow-ups in the room?
If if not, I think that will bring us to the end of this press conference.
Thank you very much for joining us.
