OHCHR Press conference on Syria 1 March 2021

So thank you very much.

Early morning there for you all for joining us here.

This is a press conference on the occasion of the launch of their latest special report which speaks to their findings on arbitrary imprisonment and detention over the course of the conflict in Syria.

The report is effectively now the embargo has been lifted.

We share that with you this morning.

So you can now report straight away.

We have together with the report itself, there's a press release in English and Arabic and lots of other material that supplements the report itself, including videos, photographs, satellite imagery and lots of different infographics and maps and so forth.

So all that is all available on the Commission's web page in the press release that we will be sending you momentarily.

So without further ado, I'll ask Paolo if we could play.

If we can have an opening remarks from Powell straight away, then we'll take your questions.

[Other language spoken]

Francois, yes, we have a, we have a opening remarks from Paulo.

Could you please run those please?

[Other language spoken]

OK, Francois, do we have the the clip?

Could you please run that?

It's switching on and off the video, but not the audio.

[Other language spoken]

Should we play a video or?

Yes, that's all.

I don't have the video.

[Other language spoken]

OK then.

Paolo, would you be able to deliver some short remarks?

Do you have the script in front of you?

Paolo, if we can unmute Paolo, please, Francois, Paolo, if you can deliver the opening remarks live, that would be fine.

[Other language spoken]

That's it.

OK, Paolo, whenever you're ready, sorry there was a malfunction with the the short pre recorded video.

So if you wouldn't mind just reciting a few opening remarks, the ones you have before you.

[Other language spoken]

Thank you very much to be with us this morning.

As you know, we are entering in the 10th year anniversary of the Commission of Inquiry on on the Syedanab Republic and we have prepare and we have launched 2 reports.

1 is a retrospective report about the 10 years of functioning of the the Commission and the the second one that is being launched today is about the the tensions in Syria, not only by the the government and its allied forces, but also by armed groups and and most particularly the the UN define the terrorist groups.

We'll be delighted to to take any question, any comments that you have.

I am here with my colleagues Karen Abuzaid and Honey Make Guide.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Paulo, Thank you very much.

And I apologise to those of you who are tuning in.

We had a little bit of a technical glitch, but thank you very much for summarising those remarks.

And we will have something that we can share with you on the Commission's website, some some remarks which introduce the press conference.

But now we'll take your questions.

We have a question coming in from the Kuwait News Agency.

[Other language spoken]

Thank you very much, Rolando, and good afternoon.

There is a adjudication issued by the German justice last week.

Again, it's a formal collaborator with the Assad regime in torture.

What's your comment on this and should other countries follow the same German procedure?

[Other language spoken]

I I think this is a very important development the, the decision in Koblenz in Germany.

We are very glad that some member states are are acknowledging the universal responsibility for some crimes and for some criminals in Syria.

But, and, and we are also very pleased with the ingenuity of Syrian energy or Syrian civil society entities that are trying to introduce this issues.

This case is in many judiciaries, several countries, but I but it's there is a small embarrassment because the only way after 10 years of terrible crimes, war crimes, crimes against humanity, the only way to have some criminal cases judged and some sentencing sentence deliver is through the Member States.

And to now, for instance, we the the the case of Syria cannot be examined by the International Criminal Tribunal.

That will be the the normal referral case.

But perhaps my colleagues have something to add.

Honey, I think you've said it all, Paulo, as as the Commission has been doing over the last few years with the data we've been collecting, we've been trying to assist some of these jurisdictions abroad, including the the processing coblands.

I think if I remember correctly, we've we've been approached at least by 60 different jurisdictions seeking information that we've been able to provide to help them in about 300 cases that are ongoing at the moment.

[Other language spoken]

Thank you very much to both of you.

And we have a question now from Lisa Schleiner, Voice of America.

[Other language spoken]

Yes, hello everybody.

And I'm terribly frustrated, Paulo, that you didn't talk to us.

I understand that you that Francois has the audio.

I do radio and I really depend upon a voice.

And I was wondering, I don't know how long the audio is.

Maybe it's two or three minutes.

Perhaps he could just play the audio and we can look at you being silent there on the video.

Otherwise I'm going to have to pepper you with whole a whole lot of questions that you would rather not hear from me.

Is that possible?

Because I, I really need to know the conditions under who the people are that are being detained, why they are being detained, the kinds of conditions, the sort of *****, what it why it is that you're so concerned.

I mean, you're talking about you, you somehow, or rather the jurisdiction and, and finding some way to punish them.

But that's putting the cart before the horse, if I might say, thank you so much before I before the commissioners respond to to your questions, Lisa and comments.

Indeed, they're, they're most most able to respond to those important questions, but the video rather the audio and the video is on the website, I'm told.

I will share that with you as a direct link afterwards to make it easier.

But at this point, I think we need to move on with the press conference, but we'll make sure to send you your audio feed.

So Hani or Paolo, who wanted to take this one?

[Other language spoken]

No, I'm happy to jump in.

So, Lisa, you know, this is a horrific report, I have to say, when we were asked by the Human Rights Council to look back over 10 years with a focus on, on arbitrary detention and imprisonment in Syria.

And you know, the first things that emerge from the review is that arbitrary detention was used to punish critics, to punish opponents.

And it was used by everyone, but primarily by, by the Syrian, by the Syrian state.

And it was used on a on a massive scale.

It was also used to intimidate and to terrorise the population at large.

You know, people are afraid to move around the country because they may be picked up at checkpoints and they know what will happen if they get detained.

Because also, as as we've seen, once you're detained, you're likely to be tortured brutally.

And the report outlines a number of torture methods that have been used.

And detention has also been used to disappear people.

And you know, the numbers are now, you know, we've not been able to quantify but, but according to some of the, the Syrian groups have been monitoring this.

You know, they're in the 10s of thousands and maybe over over 100 thousands.

And all of this, which is what's so tragic.

All of this has been happening with the knowledge of the backers, the governments that are backing either the Syrian state or the, OR the, OR the groups that are are fighting against the Syrian state.

And we focus in particular on on five of these, the the the Free Syrian Army, the Syrian National Army, the Syrian Democratic Forces, and the Islamic State.

What we also find in the report is that torture was systematic by the government of Syria and also by the Islamic State and by Haiti Hersham.

It was also used quite often by the other groups.

But but what emerges is a systematised approach to torture and treatment by those three.

What we also could see is that we knew all along that the Syrian state was keeping records and knew or likely knew who they who was in detention and who was missing.

And despite all the efforts by families and others to locate people, the state has not been cooperative.

What came out of the doing the data analysis in this report is even more evidence that it is a still a very centralised and very well documented regime.

We, you know, we could see and there's a map in the report that shows movement of detainees in Syria from outlying areas to the to the major cities, to the capital, which again I think is further proof of how centralised the system of detaining people is.

Which again adds then to the evidence that this is not arbitrary detention or I'll treatment by rogue elements.

This is a very systematic policy which goes up to the top, which is very important when we come to talking about accountability and responsibility for the crimes being committed in Syria.

You know, what we then say is that it's even now even more important that people are released, that there's access to places of detention, that families are informed about the whereabouts of their of their missing relatives, that this sort of conduct, this continues from now on because, you know, it's been revealed now 10 years on, we've been doing it year by year.

But now 10 years on, I think it's very clear.

And those parties that are supporting either the state or the other parties to this conflict know what's happening and have a duty and an obligation to try and prevent it going forward.

[Other language spoken]

Perhaps I, I have just a footnote that was in my introduction.

I think it's very important that the evolution of the question of the team, the tension is not something linear.

But we have seen fluctuating waves of arbitrary detention campaigns of vary kinds of by the main Dutch bearers in Syria, from mass arrests of demonstrator in the beginning of the conflict to mass internment of men, woman and children today.

And another point is last thing that you say now that is not exaggeration to say that nearly all Syrians having been victims by one way or the other.

The and as Henry said, the fate of the tains of thousands who are disappeared by Syrian government force for instance, remains completely unknown.

I think that it it is time that the international community and the Member states involved of the conflict can push for the something to be done concerning the identification of who is the attention of what, who are these disappear.

Thank you, sorry.

Thank you both for those responses.

We have a question now from Stephanie of Reuters.

[Other language spoken]

In the report you refer to, you know, providing information to some of these 60 or so jurisdictions and say that the the trial in Koblenz, Germany did use some refer to your reports.

Can you say a little bit more specifically what sort of information, if I understood Paulo correctly, you've been able to provide then that that helped on that specific case and a little bit more about what other jurisdictions are they mainly in Europe where you are helping prosecutors with their to build their case?

[Other language spoken]

Before my colleagues will elaborate about that, I think that's very important that our cooperations, our cooperation are not with governments, but with judicial system in specific countries.

We usually we don't say what member states, what judicial assistance of member states that we have collaborated.

But yeah, and this we don't answer also some kind of phishing expedition that is we try to to answer a very specific request and of of course we enter in this conversation respecting some basic conditionalities.

Honey and Karen, please.

Yes, I think you've said it all, Paul.

We, you know, we try to help when we're approached, when we consider that we're being approached by an independent judicial mechanism.

As Paulo says, we're not doing this with the governments.

We're doing it with the judicial mechanisms around the world.

And in quite a few now European countries and, and, and further afield, part of what we do is obviously between US and them.

So we, we'd rather not speak too much about what sort of information we're providing etcetera.

But it would be linked to investigations that they're conducting where they would like to see if we could provide some of the information we've gathered over the 10 years.

Carrie, you want to add something?

Nothing to say that was then.

Then I will say something.

I think that perhaps you know that we don't do criminal investigations.

That is the the entity that is preparing this at the moment, preparing a criminal case.

It's a triple I mechanism that can deal with any aspect of evidence that is during ten years, our investigations, human rights investigations where we have attributed some war crimes and crimes against humanity.

But we we are not a prosecutor's office to prepare this cases for being judged one day.

For the moment, this is being done by the triple I mechanism.

[Other language spoken]

We now have not only Castro de Moussa or Francais Mousasi Alesi Moussa.

[Other language spoken]

We can we can tell you Musa, maybe we can do something separately in Arabic.

I apologise as this is Aun press conference here.

We OK to English and French only Francais angles.

Wait a minute my my French is really not good enough to I can reply in English if if you like.

I think the question was on, on the recent USUS aerial bombardment and, and others.

I mean, the way the Commission has approached this from the very beginning is to focus on any civilian casualties from such attacks rather than to be looking into the legalities of who's doing what.

And you know by now how many different countries have their hands in Syria and involved in, in various military actions and, and human rights and humanitarian law violations.

So our, what we've been doing is whenever attacks have happened, is to try to investigate if there have been civilian casualties.

And if so, we've then taken them up with, with those authorities and we've published them in our reports.

And you'll see that in, in our previous reports, you know, attacks that have happened in the last few days.

You know, we'll be under investigation now by by our team.

And so I can't really comment on what the results of those investigations have been, but but thank you for the question.

I, I simply like to add something that in the, in the same direction as my dear colleague Honey said.

That is, we note that any escalation, including air strikes by different Member States in very specific areas are extremely warring.

And, and the given the, the number of violations and ***** the Syrian victims have suffered in the last decade, we don't think that this kind of strikes is beneficial for the conflict in Syria.

And as Henry said, there are today around 5 armies fighting in Sid.

There is already a very complex situation and and of course our investigation is where there were violations, where there were victims and but we think that is lamentably that this very moment we have the sort of escalated in with a focus in certain areas in Syria.

[Other language spoken]

Maybe to add from our the report we released last week, which is the retrospective report, you know, we conclude in that report that all the parties involved in the Syria conflict have prioritised trying to win militarily and in doing so have prioritised protecting their own and sacrificing civilians.

And and as a result, the Syrian civilian population has borne the brunt of violations on the hands of all sides involvement in this conflict.

[Other language spoken]

We have a question now from Isabel Sako of FA Spanish News Agency.

[Other language spoken]

Good afternoon to us.

Thank you, Rolando, maybe for Mr Pinedo, when the revolution started in Syria and I I reflected this morning thinking about this press conference that we journalists began to at the time we began to write about it.

And but at that time, we could never imagine that after 10 years, we would still talking about it as an unresolved situation and with the same government in place.

So, and I suspect that you have somehow the same or a similar feeling.

So my question is, how do you see or how do you access the current situation and the near future in Syria regarding human rights, regarding accountability for the countless violations that you have recorded?

And about the conflict itself, As you mentioned, the conflict is still going on, but the general public tend to think that the the conflict is somehow over because it's not in news in the news.

And thank you.

[Other language spoken]

It's we the I think that both reports gate the war is not over principally for the series themselves.

Of course, we have to welcome any alleviation.

For instance, you don't have bombardments in all the state territory, despite this specific bombardments that we have just mentioned and we there is we have repeated that as a mantra.

As Penny said a few seconds that there is no military solution, only a political solution with the inclusion of the Syrians, but member States and, and groups involved in the conflict, they seek a military victory.

And this is a illusion because you have this millions of displaced people, millions of, of refugees and of course some, as we say in the, in the 2 reports, the retrospective report and the detention report, we, we don't know how many people arbitrarily detained in, in the prisons in Syria.

We, we don't know for sure any a, a number, a probable number of, of disappears.

Of course, there is no other way than a, a, a real national ceasefire.

But negotiations in Syria is always, as you know, very complex because you have so many players and some with a great autonomy from those who are and and and Esposo this army groups.

The the terrible thing is that what has begun as a protest for more democracy for human rights rapidly transform in a non international armed conflict with the involvement of of different member States and then to build this, as the different special invoice by from the United Nations have demonstrated extremely, extremely difficult.

But we that is 10 years after we published the first report.

There is no other solution then diplomacy and then negotiation of a ceasefire.

Bombardments don't help at all to reach a peaceful situation and a cessation of those violations that you have just mentioned, which I guess, honey, you want to add something though this is for.

[Other language spoken]

Voice of America.

[Other language spoken]

This is a follow up to my question.

OK, honey, honey, I said honey, sorry, honey, this is a follow up for you.

[Other language spoken]

Did you say that, that the countries that are supporting these various warring factions, the, for instance, the Russians who are allied with the government, the United States has supported Kurds, there are other countries, Turkey and so forth, who are, who have their favourite warring party?

Are you saying that they know all about these, these black holes, these detention centres where the people have disappeared?

And I mean, if you could comment upon that and what you think about countries who are somehow supporting these, as you call them, terrible crimes, right.

I, I think there's no doubt that they know, if nothing else, if they read the reports of the Commission of inquiry, you know, twice a year they will know about these crimes that are going on about.

And the places of detention where, you know, the notorious places of detention that have been listed in previous reports and there's quite a few listed in this report.

You know, in some cases, you know, they were in the detention centres and in some cases present when, when torture and violations were happening.

But for us, what's important is these states have an obligation to, to discourage this, to pressure the parties that they're supporting from continuing to, to torture, to arbitrarily in prison, to **** people in detention, to disappear them, to use sexual and gender based violence against those in detention, etcetera.

You know, that's, you know, they're supporting their funding, they're providing arms and they can't now say we didn't know they were doing this.

You know, we've said it for 10 years and we're repeating it now over the whole of the 10 years.

You know, now's the time to say stop doing this.

And now's the time to pressure the Syrian state and the other parties, which unfortunately mimic the Syrian state by and large, to, to pressure them to stop the violations and to move forward.

And, and really it's, it's, it's too late for many, but now we're, we're pressing hard for people to be released.

And particularly in the climate of a pandemic, as we've seen around the world, you know, overcrowded prison conditions that are poor, that lacks, that lack hygiene, etcetera, are breeding grounds for this pandemic that will spread, you know, and if it spreads within the system, prison system and and detention system in Syria, it will spread amongst the population and will spread to neighbouring countries and it will become a major international problem.

So if nothing else, now is the time to get people out of detention.

[Other language spoken]

Thank you, honey.

We'll now move to John Zaracostas if we can unmute John.

[Other language spoken]

Can you hear me all?

Yes, fine.

[Other language spoken]

Firstly, my question is to the experts in your research, do you fault that all the UN peace process for carving out the question of the arbitrary detentions and the process went to the parallel Astana process for quite a few years if that was a diplomatic error?

And secondly, since we have Professor Pinera and given your expertise, if you have any thoughts on what's going on in Myanmar given your previous position as a special expert?

[Other language spoken]

I can jump in on the on the question of the efforts.

I mean, we have been encouraging, you know, all parties that have any influence or are talking to the state or the opposition to press on the question of the tensions and disappearances in Syria.

And so, you know, it will be difficult for us to be to be criticising the special envoys for bringing this up as part of the negotiations.

And in fact, we've been saying releases and and coming clean about the missing and the disappeared might actually create a better environment for a political process to be to be going forward, because it would maybe instil a bit more trust amongst the parties that are supposedly sitting down to, to to find a way through this morass of this of this conflict.

So I don't think, you know, we can be criticising anyone who brings up the the issues.

We were disappointed that the Astana process didn't go far enough.

We had hoped that, you know, there were some numbers of releases, but it was really limited to, to the warring parties and, and combatants and did not extend to the, the civilian population, which, you know, had that happened, I think we would have been welcoming it and encouraging it.

About the second, second questions.

And I can't say anything even if I have a great sympathy for Myanmar, but I was special rapporteur from Tian to 2008 and there is now another Commission of inquiry.

And and then I, I, I, I thank you for your question, but I can't say anything.

[Other language spoken]

Yeah, If we could just stick to the subject at hand, perhaps.

Yeah, we'll just stick to that.

Thank you very much.

So we have a question now from Nicola Voltier.

[Other language spoken]

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[Other language spoken]

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[Other language spoken]

Apollo we have the final question will come from Robin Millard.

Millard of Arce de France.

[Other language spoken]

Just a question for Hanny.

Earlier on you said that there were.

10s of thousands involved in this, which is what the report says.

And you said maybe over 100,000 involved.

Are we talking about maybe over 100,000 people detained or or over 100,000 people completely disappeared?

[Other language spoken]

Just if you could give me a little bit more on that.

[Other language spoken]

Right, right.

You know, in previous reports we've said to be detained in Syria is to be missing.

And that's because often when you're detained, you're held, your whereabouts are not known, your family don't know where to find you.

The state doesn't even acknowledge that they're holding you.

And similarly with, with some of the other parties to this, to this conflict.

So I think that when people talk about more than 100,000, they're lumping together people who are detained and whose whereabouts are not known.

And, and we don't know if they, if they're alive or, or, or are no longer with us.

But generally for, for the Commission of inquiry, it's been very difficult to, to do that sort of quantification.

You know, we can talk about 10s of thousands we detained, many of them missing in force, disappeared.

But, you know, I don't think we can be saying the number goes up to over 100,000 such because we don't have that data ourselves.

OK, I see there are a few more little blue hands that have been raised.

We we're going to take that as a last question.

But if we can keep you on the commissioners for maybe just 3-4 more minutes, we have two last questions.

If it let, these will have to be the last female then Moussa.

[Other language spoken]

And then I'll play Gabriella Sotomayor so we can unmute Moussaf.

[Other language spoken]

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[Other language spoken]

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OK, maybe somebody could summarise just to make sure.

I got the the second question.

[Other language spoken]

So the the second question.

I forgot the second question.

[Other language spoken]

I, I admit, I I actually, I counted myself apologies.

Maybe if we can ask Moussa to pose the question again in in French is fine.

Sorry for that, gentlemen.

[Other language spoken]

OK, exceptional.

[Other language spoken]

Exceptional.

No, no, no men, Yeah, whom we had Alhamel, Limeda, Tukta Almia and at the left Minister Yin Sukran, if Hani, if you wouldn't mind just summarising the question for the benefit of others.

[Other language spoken]

The question and I think is around that over the last year or more particularly in the neighbourhood of Al Hasakah, water has been cut off many times and who's responsible for that And it's a good question.

You know, we're we're investigating it amongst other things.

And I'm not sure I can give you a direct answer on that right now.

Our team is investigating and has been investigating not just the question of the water supplies, but other violations that have been taking place that have been putting pressure on the local population there.

So maybe I'll come back to you, Musa.

I'll try and check on what's the latest on that and come back to you separately.

Thank you, honey.

Yes, So we can continue that offline if we have the.

Now the last question is from Gabriella, if we can unmute Gabriella, go ahead.

[Other language spoken]

Thank you very much.

Gabriella Sotomayor, Mexico, We have been following these war, I mean these reports since since 10 years ago.

And it's difficult to ask this question, but after 10 years of this terrible war, do you think the government of Damascus cares about these reports?

I, I, I will say something and my colleagues perhaps is the last question will say something, Gabriella.

[Other language spoken]

And even recently we, we have the we had the possibility we've had of having some exchange with the senior representation in, in in Geneva, sometimes indirectly.

But if you have followed every speech of the distinguished representatives of the Syrian Arab Republican Human Rights Council and I I think that they they follow very closely what what we do.

If you read all the their comments and their criticism, that is we are we like very much to be criticised.

I think that we are able to improve what we have done thanks to the criticism of the representatives of the senior Republican for from other member states.

But the important thing for us, Gabrielle is that the victims, they appreciate our work.

I think that is is very important and and in a certain way, without praising ourselves, the reports became some authoritative contribution for the interpretation of human rights law and and I think this is very important for the victim.

But before my colleagues will say the the last word as perhaps today is the the very press conference that we are doing around the almost arriving at our 10th anniversary.

I would like to, to thank Gabriella and all your colleagues that returning to this, to this conference, sometimes weaning in temptation of frustration and the folly our work in what the they read and what they say.

I, I think that without this attention of you, it would be have been very difficult for us to work in this Commission.

Then Rolando, I think that's important that I'd like to in this almost 10 years to, to thank the the press in Geneva for for following us so closely and of course, in the company of Rolando and his colleagues.

And I must say that the, I must tell that the secretariat, of course, joins join us in this.

Thanks to the the press, honey and Carrie for your final words in the Today.

[Other language spoken]

I'll wind up for all of us.

And thank you all for your questions, certainly good ones and ones that we were eager to answer.

And I think my colleagues did very well, of course, as always did that.

It's always a pleasure to be here with the with the journalists even virtually I'd say.

[Other language spoken]

I think most of them have come up, but just to be sure, one of the themes Paulo mentioned in his opening that this report brings, our report brings to light is the fact that the issues of detention in the disappeared and the missing missing touch Syrians across the geographical and political spectrum.

All sides have engaged in unlawful and detention practises, which means there are victims and survivors and families awaiting news of their loved ones on all sides.

And this is the particularly part, that part of it is they don't know what's happened to their people who may be just detained or they may be detained and tortured or detained and tortured and killed and so on.

The parties to the conflicts and the states that back them already know this, but we hope our report will help remind them of this fact.

Any notion that one side should wait for the others to release the arbitrary pain, or seizing commutative actions, or locate and return the mortal remains of the missing, is very artificial and unhelpful, and these are fundamental humanitarian imperatives for all sides.

For the government in particular, however, these are their own citizens, and the failure to take the aforementioned minimal actions are unambiguous, grave human rights violations, and we urge all parties to the complex to take these actions regardless of the actions of others.

Detaining, detaining without legal grounds and withholding information on the missing and the dead punishes families, not the adversaries.

It would take very simply the will to act to end enormous amounts of suffering.

[Other language spoken]

And I just wanted to take this opportunity to really thank you for your immensely important work you've been doing over these years.

I think, Paulo, you said is an authoritative contribution to human arts law.

It is indeed that and, and just so much more.

And I, I would just like to echo your sentiments to the media for the important work you do.

Should you not report on these important findings of the Commission inquiry, the message would simply fall flat and there would be less of a chance of, of justice for the many victims.

So thank you all very much.

This report on arbitrary detention and that the retrospective report which was published on the 18th of February will be presented to the Human Rights Council on the 11th of March.

So I would encourage you to follow those proceedings at that point.

And I now know that I'd like to thank you once again for joining us.

[Other language spoken]