UNESCO-EBU press conference 8 December 2020

Good afternoon, everybody.

Thank you very much for being with us today for this press conference that's is going to be held by UNESCO and EBU and that UNICE is happy to host.

I am very pleased to have as a subject today for this press conference the world press freedom and public service journalism in the viral age and to tell us about this subject we have today.

And my right, Vanson de Furni, the director of the UNESCO Listen Office in Geneva, on my left, leads Corbyn, head of news at the European Broadcasting Union and online, 2 colleagues, 1 who's coming to us from Paris, Guy Berger, Director for Communication and Information Strategy and Policy at UNESCO.

I believe you are speaking from Paris, Sir.

And we have Mike Olige who is the co-author of the report Fast forward Public Service Journalism in the Viral Age.

And I believe she's speaking to us from Amsterdam.

So let's start immediately with Vanson, who is going to introduce us to the subject and the press and the conference of the next days.

Thank you very much, Alessandra.

It's our pleasure to be with you and to talk about the the Word Press Freedom Conference to take place in in in The Hague and online in the coming days.

UNESCO and the Kingdom of the Netherlands organising this word press conference and which should have happened in May, but I mean given the circumstances and it is taking place in December and in an innovative format because it will be mainly online.

Influential journalist and press freedom champions from around the world will take part in the conference and examine solutions to overcome the most pressing and compelling challenges facing the media in the in these unprecedented time.

And among the speaker, we will have quite important and and very outspoken persons like Maya Resa.

She's the CEO of Rappro from Philippines, Amal Cloney, human rights lawyer from UK, Elizabeth Bumila from Washington.

She's the chief of the Bureau of the Washington Bureau of the New York Times.

Christian Anampur, chief international Incorp at CNN.

Joe Maloof, founder, Dignity in NGO in Lebanon and last but not least, Jeanette Bedoya, journalist and laureate of the 2020 UNESCO Guillermocano World Press Freedom Prize.

[Other language spoken]

New research tools and measures to strengthen press freedom and the security of journalists around the world will be announced at the event.

The two day event will include numerous interactive panels and discussions on topics ranging from investigating killing of journalist, online violence against women journalist, media sustainability, online content regulations and media response to the COVID-19.

**** level governmental authorities, judges, prosecutors, special rapporteurs and civil society leaders will be involved in the discussion.

I really would like to stress that this conference is a multi stakeholder conference.

[Other language spoken]

And I just would like to give some conference highlights.

There will be tomorrow, 9 of December, introductory discussions involving **** profile journalist and press freedom champions.

There will be also a **** tomorrow as well, a **** level panel on the safety of journalists and the problem of impunity for crimes against media workers with Steph Bloke, who's the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Netherlands.

Iran Khan was the UN Special Rapporteur we know well in Geneva on the promotion and protection of freedom of opinion and expression.

There will be also Amal, Amal Clooney, the legal experts and Viraj Rova, she's the vice president of the European Commission for values and transparent and transparency.

These are a few names among many others.

There will be also an extended interview with CNN chief international anchor Christian Ananpur on the 10th of December.

She will respond exclusively to question from audience including via via UNESCO social media channels.

And there will be also a very important a conversation between two of the most prominent woman journalist in Latin in Latin America, Jeanette Bedoya.

I already mentioned Guillermocano, UNESCO Guillermocano Prize winner, and Carmen Aristegi, who will exchange experiences about their battles against censorship and violence against women.

There will be also several launches of research and documents from launch by UNESCO.

Maybe I will let my colleague Guy Berger to to explain and to develop maybe a bit more on the, on the, on the, on the, on the details that's of the of the of the conference.

So maybe, Guy, you may want to continue, you may want to come in.

Yes, indeed, Guy, you are the Director for Communication and Information Strategy at UNESCO.

Maybe you want to take the floor on on and to complete what Vanson has just told us.

Yes, thank you very much for that.

[Other language spoken]

So the theme of this conference, this world's press freedom conference, is journalism without fear or favour.

A well known message, but not necessarily getting the recognition that it needs journalism.

Journalism without fear of favour is so key, as we have seen for independent information during this COVID.

So key for providing reliable and verified information and for digging into and detecting the disinfedemic of lies and falsehoods that surrounds us now.

This event, 9th and 10th of December, coincides with the International Day Against Corruption and then International Human Rights Day.

And so there are direct connections between this focus on independent journalism and these two themes.

First of all, independent journalism about keeping procurement honest.

This is a big thing in times of COVID procurement and the need to have independent media investigation, oversight, publicity around procurement.

Secondly, International Human Rights Day, this is about demonstrating, I think to the public, the broad public, the value of the right to freedom of expression in combating the crisis, especially when that right to freedom of expression is used by journalists and who use this right and this freedom with professional and ethical standards.

So as my colleague Vincent de Ferny has explained over these two days, we have a unique opportunity globally to bring together many actors to look at how independent media have performed and what can be done to strengthen their work.

There will be 5 channels in this format.

It will almost be like press Freedom television.

There will be a Press Freedom cinema.

There will be a youth newsroom.

There will be a digital cartoon wall.

Many of the sessions are in 4 languages.

And in the midst of all this, or coming through all this, there are two key themes, press freedom and independence on the one hand, and safety of journalists and the problem of impunity whereby attackers of journalists get away without any consequence.

So on the press freedom theme, there's the award of the Press Freedom Prize.

There's a meeting of the rapporteurs of different organisations, including Irene Kahn, who was mentioned, but other rapporteurs about where the world is on freedom of expression.

There are sessions dealing with how does the COVID and the reaction to COVID impact on the media, because in some cases there have been restrictions.

There are discussions about the regulation of content on the Internet.

There's pitfalls and, and, and, and the possibilities there.

There are discussions about inclusive media, which is so important for trust.

And there's discussion about public media and sustainability of media.

These are two key issues.

Also those on the freedom side.

On the safety side, there's a **** level panel of various actors discussing safety of journalists, impunity issues.

There's an academic conference of researchers and scholars looking at what they're finding around the world on the state of safety and issues like that.

There's a legal forum, I'll mention that in a second.

And there's a focus on women journalists and the attacks they face.

And there's a, a, a panel or so about how to support prosecutions of those who attack journalists.

So just I think to wrap up here, some news points that emerge from this, that will emerge from this event.

First, there will be the, the launch of the world's first international or international forum of legal actors, international forum of legal actors on freedom of expression.

And this will bring together judges, lawyers and prosecutors on an annual basis.

Then we will also have the launch of the first international guidelines by UNESCO and the International Association of Prosecutors.

These guidelines are on investigating and prosecuting crimes against journalists, with key recommendations that come out of these guidelines.

So those are two very important outcomes.

We will also release 2 research products.

One is UNESCO's new report on media independence.

Exactly this.

Journalism without fear of favour And what does it mean when media is captured?

And the second research where we release is a global study with UNESCO and the International Journalists Association, not Association Centre about who surveyed online violence targeting women journalists around the world.

And then there will be some announcements about funding, about how UNESCO will begin training of security forces, for example, particularly in this context of protests when security forces and media have have wrestled with the issue of what their relationship is in the the growing protest we see around the world.

And finally, there are, there is going to be a, a closed round table convened by the Netherlands of member States and they're expected to produce a statement, a commitment to enhancing the freedom of journalists.

So that's in a, in a nutshell, is it?

It's all online.

And I do encourage participation.

I think it's there's a lot that is newsworthy coming out of it.

This is a message that does merit being amplified to all kinds of constituencies.

And the message is this, that media must be free, safe and independent if the public is to have access to trustworthy news.

Thank you very much.

Thank you very much Guy for this information.

The the promise to be really an interesting conference.

And I I appreciated what you said about the issue of impunity, which is also something that our Secretary General, Antonio Guterres said in a statement on the 11th of November when he said that when he called for a concerted efforts to tackle widespread impunity for crimes against journalists.

And on my left, we and, and online we have colleagues from the European Broadcasting Unit Union.

Sorry, who are the journalists and who are part of this body of people that bring us information every day.

And I will give now the floor to Liz Corbyn, who is the head of news at the European Broadcasting Union, maybe to also tell us a little bit about what they have found on their side of being a journalist in the.

Thank you very much.

It's a pleasure to be here today and thank you.

Good afternoon to everybody.

I have to say the conference over the next couple of days sounds absolutely incredible, amazing speakers and very much looking, looking forward to participating in in some, if not all of those sessions.

But thank you also for the opportunity to share with you the the important findings of the European Broadcasting Union's news report for 2020.

By way of introduction, for those of you who don't know us, the EBU is the world's leading alliance of public service media organisations.

Our members serve audiences of more than a billion people around the world and our news department is in daily contact with newsrooms in more than 50 countries.

Shortly I will hand to Michael Ollie, who's the co-author of our report, who will present to you her key findings.

But first, I just wanted to say a few words about why I think you should should download and read this important report in full tomorrow at the at the World Press Freedom Conference.

I, I, I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that 2020 has been a year where we have rediscovered precisely why impartial, independent and Free Press is not just desirable, but fundamental.

Quality journalism isn't just fundamental for freedom, for democracy, but for this year, for billions of people.

It was a factor in life itself.

Journalism this year has made the difference between life and death, and it's important that we study how that happened, what was good, and what we can learn.

After a good few years of wondering whether truth was at risk of becoming an old fashioned concept, truth matters again.

2020 has been really horrible in so many ways, but there has been some good that's come from it.

This is our report which I have a hard copy of but which you can download.

We called it Fast forward Public Service Journalism in a Viral Age because we felt that title really captured so much of what we've learnt this year.

As with so many industries, the pandemic hit the Fast forward button on changes which were already in progress and ideas which were just that, just ideas were catapulted in into reality faster than we could ever imagined in pre COVID times.

Public service journalism is journalism done, funded and controlled by the public, for the public, and the global pandemic made people desperate for good quality information.

Audiences turned in huge numbers to public service journalism providers.

And in this viral age where the spread of fake news is perhaps the only thing keeping pace with COVID, there has been innovation and creativity.

When every other industry was closing down, newsrooms were increasing their output, reaching new audiences.

You've all heard it.

[Other language spoken]

Acceleration is the new buzzword.

And I tell you, I'd put journalists second, probably only to vaccine scientists this year in terms of acceleration.

We all know about the national news bulletins presented from spare bedrooms and the news websites edited from kitchen tables.

But no doubt some of you attending today are doing something you could never have imagined this time last year.

But it hasn't just been about staying on air and online.

That was an achievement in itself, absolutely.

But no new output has been launched, new services for younger audiences, local journalism was literally a lifesaver, new communities were built and COVID content was king, whichever platform it went on.

But while we can celebrate, what has been achieved hasn't been easy, has it?

Let's be honest, I will never forget the meetings I have had with editors in chief this year.

Bosses from the biggest and most influential newsrooms in Europe and beyond, all gathered on a video conference just like this week in, week out.

Sharing stories, of course, with each other.

Also challenges, solutions, worries, successes and of course failures.

No one had done this before.

A global pandemic was always just a theory.

We all had disaster recovery plans, of course, but few had a plan for this.

Everyone was honest.

It was tough and it still is.

Some weeks it felt a little bit like group therapy, but it was crucial in the springtime.

We hung on every word our colleagues in Italy and then Spain were telling us.

For those yet to experience the first wave felt completely unbelievable.

But there is no doubt that the information shared helped many to stay on air and to keep their staff safe.

They knew what was coming and then how to prepare for it.

In our report you hear directly from twenty of these leaders.

We think that it is the most detailed contemporaneous study of public service journalism in 2020.

And even having lived through it, when I came to read this report, I was still struck by what was achieved in such a short space of time.

And of course, this is only the beginning.

Our aim with this report is to share it as widely as possible and in the hope that what we've learnt who helps the whole industry with the big questions of our time.

How will 2020 affect the decisions we make in 2021 and beyond?

What about remote working should we take with us?

How will it change our political reporting or how we cover science, scientific debate?

So now let me hand you over to the person that can answer at least some of these questions, Micah, Ollie and the co-author of our report, Fast forward, Public service journalism in a viral age.

And Micah is joining us from Amsterdam.

Mikey, thank you for being with us.

You have the floor.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Liz for the good introduction.

And hello, good afternoon everyone.

I'm indeed in the Netherlands.

In Amsterdam, not too far from The Hague, but still a bit of a train, right?

Maybe I'm going to join you tomorrow in The Hague because it sounds very interesting.

The programme that you have listed for tomorrow.

I'm a journalism consultant from the Netherlands.

I used to work for our national news broadcaster here in the Netherlands, Nos, but now I'm independent and I'm also in the board of our National Journalism Foundation here in the country.

As I said, I'm co-author of the report.

That means that there's another person.

Unfortunately he can't be with us today.

[Other language spoken]

He is the former head of news of the Finnish public service broadcaster Wiley.

But he's currently the DG of the Higher Education department of the Finnish government.

So he is, he's very busy, unfortunately, so not here with me today.

But together we analysed exactly what Liz said the the lasting impact actually of the corona crisis on public service journalism.

As we all saw this huge corona pandemic unfold, the EBU was apprehensive for the influence it would have on the position of public service in society.

And they asked me another to analyse this.

So that's what we did.

We interviewed those 20 news leaders from the whole EBU membership.

They came from Spain, Germany, Sweden, Finland and we talked with them about their first hand experiences, asked them what they have been through, what they have seen additional.

We've done trend research to see what were the lasting impacts would be.

We we see things happening now, but how will that impact the future for us?

Today I want to share with you as a small part of this actually quite thick report, if you look at it, which covers a lot of ground from being able to change quickly to fighting fake news to offer a platform of solidarity in in a country.

But today I want to focus on on one of the topics specifically, and I will use the voices of the news leaders that I've been talking to together with utter to share this story with you.

The topic that I want to talk to you about is the position of public service media in society, which is very much between governments and the audience.

And for this I have some slides prepared.

So I will share my screen now.

Hopefully it will go well.

And then here we are.

[Other language spoken]

That's always nice to hear.

[Other language spoken]

We call this chapter at your at your service Public because it's really about this position that you have as a public service medium.

In the beginning of the pandemic, public service really benefited being from being the primary source of information in most of our countries.

We had the honourable task of being the the place where everybody went to ratings were never higher on television, on radio, but also online.

And the audience really appreciated that public service was giving the first line information because this was crucial.

I have a quote here which it's from Matthias.

He is the head of news at ORF in Austria and he explains that people really appreciate it and found it really important that public service aired every single press conference and really took their role as being the primary source of information.

It was expected of public service.

We also saw that in this time the in the beginning of the pandemic, the trust in government was really ****.

The Edelman Trust Barometer done research and they measured a surge in trust in governments in the period between May and January.

So in May, it was much higher than in January, making them the most trusted institution actually for the first time ever, which is interesting.

And if you look at research done by the Reuters Institute for the Study of Journalism, you see the public service broadcasters benefited from the same search of trust in 14 countries in Europe.

They were the most trusted news brand.

But there is a risk.

When you're the main source of information, it is easy to be mistaken for the government itself.

This is a quote from Martin from the Czech Republic saying that some people might have interpreted the covering of the press conferences perhaps as being pro governmental.

Although of course in many countries the public service media tried their best to be as impartial as they could.

But the perception sometimes was that they were given the floor to government and being a mouthpiece of the government and not being critical enough.

And sometimes this criticism was not without reason as politicians also sort of took this momentum, took the stage that they now had and use it almost as free airtime for their political stance.

This is a quote from Latvia, Rita Reduccia.

She explains that the politicians in her country were really using the time that they were having to promote their own ideas.

And this is a sound that we've heard in more places in in Europe.

The neighbouring country, Estonia had the same.

And so, and this is interesting, the quote here doesn't stop because they made a decision at Latvian television to draw the line somewhere to stop airing every press conference as there was nothing new to be told.

They did the same in other countries and newsrooms, public service newsrooms, stepped up and took their position and claimed the time, the airtime that was theirs.

In a lot of countries it was made difficult by the government to be critical, as they were, for example, hosting digital press conferences.

A lot of journalists were working remotely, finding it difficult to ask their critical questions, and governments were able to answer only those questions that they wanted to.

So it was a really tricky position to to be more critical.

Nevertheless, when the newsrooms did, the politics came into play.

When they became more critical and more critical questions were raised from newsrooms about the decisions of their governments, governments started to fight back.

You could see this, for example, in the reframing that they did of the influence of public service.

In the beginning, a lot of governments were quite positive about the fact that public service broadcasters were distributing the most vital information.

But as the investigations became more critical to their own decisions, they started to say that these investigations would be harmful for people, that it would be harmful for people to hear all the the criticism.

There was also opposition parties, opposition parties that joined in and actually framed PSM as the government mouthpiece, while at the same time governments would say that the public service was favouring the opposition.

So PSM was stuck in the middle in a lot of countries, in the middle of quite heavy discussions.

Also in countries like Spain, for example.

In some of the countries that we that we analysed, we also saw that the government tried to expedite controversial legislation in this whole pandemic, sometimes deliberately to weaken the position of and the role of independent media in their societies.

For example, in Czech Republic, where government added three members to the supervisory board of CT of the public service broadcaster and these members are openly doubting the need for public service media in the first place.

In some countries, there's true fear of where this might lead to and what influence these kind of decisions have.

I will bring a quote here from Slovenia from the head of the radio news department, Ned.

The radio news is called Valve 2O2, and he's explaining that he's scared of Hungarian situations in Slovenia as his government is pushing forward with with heavy legislation.

And it's not just the government.

There have also been increased attacks from the public.

One explanation for this is that the polarisation, despite perhaps the growing solidarity that we have seen in the beginning of the pandemic, polarisation has not been erased.

How do you say it hasn't disappeared in our communities and sometimes it has even maybe become stronger.

This had made has has made the discussions much more extreme.

And then a lot of times the PSM again is directly targeted or in the middle of this fierce discussions.

There are conspiracy theories quite abundantly and there are accusations towards sometimes public service media or different kinds of media.

And as these insecurities and the pandemic last longer, people become even more suspicious and fearful.

They doubt all official voices and also public service news in that it doesn't help that we don't actually have full control over access to information.

Research has shown that in the Reuters research has shown that in the pandemic.

People rely on WhatsApp information for about 25%.

So 25% of people use WhatsApp to as an official source of information to get informed.

While we also know that in these WhatsApp groups communication is quite often much more negative and sometimes false information is circulating.

All of this together can have large effects even in countries where you don't really think that the freedom of the press is under attack, like in my own country in the Netherlands, But even here it has been quite challenging.

This is a quote from Marshall Falaf, the head of news here at Nos, who is now forced to hire security to cover almost every demonstration right now in the country.

So what to do?

How can public service media navigate in these unclear waters?

One of the recommendations that we make is not to just be led by the audience.

This is a quote that I bring to you from Ireland and I think it's an important one because it says that you shouldn't just do this job to win a popularity contest.

Journalism is about doing the job and so it is important that you know your audience and to be audience responsive but not to the audience LED.

You have to be aware of people's needs but don't do necessarily have to do whatever they want you to do.

The public interest should be the main focus.

Secondly, PSM Newsroom should keep it's distance to politics even when it's the official channel channel for communication.

This quote from Rye, Italy and from Antonio says it is about the balance.

You can on the one hand have to distribute the government information, but at the same time you have to scrutinise this information and it's actually striking the balance between those two.

That is a prerequisite for trust.

The Third Point that we mentioned, the third, third recommendation is to keep focusing on the entire population, the interest of society as a whole, and not just listening to the loudest voice or the power or the elite.

And this means actually that things can get quite bad, that the contact, the concept of public service media will get challenged and that reporters will ensure hate campaigns.

But the alternative is even worse, that you have serious confidence and trust issues as you're associated too close to politics.

So you have to make this stands.

And finally, I bring another quote from Latvia, from Rita Reduccia, who says that it's really important for public service media to be proactive.

You can't hire a lobbyist to go and speak on your behalf, but you have you have to bring make the case for Public service Day and again and explain your relevance and your position in society.

So in summary, I've listed the recommendations that we have in this chapter to not be audience LED, to be audience responsive but not be audience LED.

To represent everyone in your society, to keep scrutinising the government even though you are the official source of information and to be much more proactive in telling your story, improving your position in society.

I want to leave it at that.

And also, like Liz said, I recommend you to read the full report.

It's really interesting, it's really well written.

I'm sorry, but it's where you find additional information.

And also I didn't mention that you have 20 case examples of newsrooms that have actually dealt with this crisis and have very inspiring stories to tell on how they found solutions and where they have found hope.

Because hope and positivity is something that we really have within this report.

And therefore, I want to finally show one more quote from Christophe Chodan from the RTS in Switzerland, who is saying that we that he really thinks that we have rediscovered intrinsic value of community services.

And Arthur and I agree with him that people in society have really revalued the position of public service and that there's big opportunities for you to claim the position in in society.

So I'm going to stop sharing now and leave it at that.

Thank you very much that that's been extremely fascinating.

And we know what we're going to read tonight.

Mike, I'll now go to our audience, which is made by journalists.

So it, it is really, I think we are in the core of the subject and ask our colleagues if there's anybody who would like to ask questions to EBU, but also to UNESCO.

I'll start with Lisa Schlein, Voice of America and then we'll go to you, Gabriela, Lisa Schlein, Voice of America.

[Other language spoken]

Yes, that was indeed very interesting.

And you did not deal with the hornet's nest that exists in the United States, I believe.

But I would like to ask a question anyhow to see whether certain situations that are occurring in the United States have relevance to your own report and whether you dealt with it from a European angle as well.

And what I'm particularly interested in your analysing or, or or listening to is what you do with so-called journalists who spread fake news and are responsible for harmful, very dangerous misinformation, propaganda, you might say.

Now Fox News is supposed to be an established media.

There are others that have sprung up as well, which I have have fewer credible credentials, although Fox News is losing a lot of its credibility.

So how do you reign these people in?

How do you counteract the fundamentally fake information that is coming out from them?

And how do you somehow or other persuade the public that this is harmful and that these are not the reputable or credible journalists to whom they should listen?

[Other language spoken]

So who would like to tackle this?

Because UNESC has also been very involved in the fake news.

Maybe I'll start with this.

And Micah, if you want to intervene, just raise your hand because I can't see you necessarily.

So you're electronic.

And please, thank you very much, Lisa.

Thank you for the question and greetings to everybody at Voice of America from the Edu.

So yes, we thought that one, one crisis or one massive story for 20/20 was quite enough for for one report.

So we, we didn't go into the politics, the US politics in this report, but in terms of the spreading of disinformation, and I mentioned it in my introductory remarks that, you know, fake news was accelerating at a rate that that virtually nobody could keep up with this year.

And, and was a real issue that that hunger for information in the general public was something that all of us had to to rise to in very difficult conditions.

And, and what we saw though was a big rush of audiences towards traditional, trusted, established news sources, and particularly in countries which have the tradition of public service media organisations.

And they came to to those organisations.

And I think that the most striking thing which you will see in the report was what happened with young audiences.

Yes, we absolutely saw a, a, an acceleration of the digitisation of news and new digital products, new ways of storytelling, new ways of reaching audiences.

But we also saw young people under 30s watching evening linear news bulletins.

And we just found that extraordinary.

Now it was a, it was short lived.

They didn't stay forever, but they did they have stayed with the brand and they found those brands in other places on TikTok, on on Twitter, on Facebook and in in on Instagram.

So in terms of reaching all audiences, not just traditional news loving audiences, but everybody who needs quality information, we really we've made some progress this year.

And that's why I say for, for in some ways, despite 2020 being an awful year, there were some positives from it for our industry and we really need to learn from those and take them forward.

In terms of so-called journalists spreading fake news.

I think the the the important thing is that we continue to support quality journalism, public service media organisations, but of course all of those who were not publicly funded or national broadcaster such, but all quality news organisations, journalism matters, truth matters.

And I think we have revalued and re established that principle this year.

Benson, would you like to give the UNESCO?

[Other language spoken]

Of course, this is an important issue.

And this year UNESCO has published 2 policy brief on what we have called this disinformity, this, this infodemic, this infodemic and this policy brief try precisely to at the same time to analyse and to try to, to provide answers and, and to, to show the way by who, by which public media and different kind of media actors can really react towards these false information, which are of course, very deadly and, and very, very, very, very, very saddened in this moment.

I think for, for from a UNESCO point of view, there there is, there are several ways of reposting to, to, to, to this, this infodeemic.

One of the way is of course, the fact checking and to establish and to develop the fact checking culture among the different countries.

But also another component, which is also a very key is the media literacy.

It is absolutely key to develop media literacy among the population, among a wider population.

I mean these are two quick answers, but maybe probably Guy Burger.

Yes, guy has raised his electronic hands.

Who are giving the floor guy?

Yes, thank you so much.

I, I couldn't resist responding to this, this question, what to do with the so-called journalists who are doing disinformation?

Well, freedom of expression, a lot goes with freedom of expression.

And I think the, the, the thing with journalists is that we expect higher standards.

I mean, that's self-evident.

And then the question is, journalists have to be judged by these highest higher standards of verification and public interest.

And these are standards journalists themselves uphold.

And most self respecting journalists will at least deep in their hearts acknowledge that that these are the standards.

Now to have those standards, you need independence.

And that is the theme of this UNESCO conference.

Independence doesn't mean that there's a sort of a simply a licence away from external restraints.

It, it has a positive content journalistic independence in the sense that in that absence of external pressures, there are ethics and codes and traditions and experiences that journalists do adhere to and, and often have their own mechanisms to hold themselves accountable to to those standards.

And I think what's super important then is that the public needs to understand what these standards are.

And this brings us to the point that Vincent deferly mentioned about media and information literacy, which indeed the media should be explained to the public.

What stand, what the standards are of journalism?

What is this higher use of freedom of expression?

And that their independence is, is not an arbitrary independence.

It's guided by these particular standards.

And that independence has to be respected first by governments, especially when they are the owners of certain media, including Voice of America.

It must be respected by advertisers, must be respected by private owners and must be respected by the journalists themselves.

Now that is the ideal that we have to hold on to because if you don't have that ideal to evaluate practise, then I think you end up throwing the baby out with, with the bath water and then journalism loses its distinctiveness.

So this this is exactly the kind of theme that we're going to be banging on about at this conference to to make clear why independence is so important and what it means.

And allow me to.

[Other language spoken]

And allow me to just mention that the Secretary General, when they, you may remember that from the very, very beginning, the, The Who spoke about the infodemic.

I mean, it was one of the things that they said very, very early in the pandemic.

And the Secretary General, Miss Gutierrez has launched an initiative called Verified, which is basically asking everybody to bring, you know, they facts based on science.

And I would like to to just mention this because the number of media outlets, media company have joined the verified initiative and are helping us distribute the right information.

So I have quite a few questions still on my list.

I will go now to the room to Gabriella Sotomayor from Processor.

[Other language spoken]

Thank you for giving me the floor.

[Other language spoken]

I'm Gabriella, the mayor correspondent of Processor magazine.

The context in Mexico.

[Other language spoken]

This year, 16 journalists have been assassinated in Mexico.

The president cut the budget for the protection of journalists and he in his press conferences, he just accredits journalists and media that criticised him.

So talking about journalism in COVID times, I just want to give you tell you a story and then ask my question very quick.

So last Monday, I asked a question to WHO director about the situation in Mexico and he spoke loud and clear about the situation in the country.

So after that, the person in charge of the strategy against pandemic in Mexico, Under Secretary over Lopez Gatel said that Gabriella Sotomayor, my name a journalist in Geneva who works for the magazine processor and who usually ask questions to WTO officials and then he disaccreditate me and I have suffer attacks online for asking the question.

So my question to you is how intimidating is this for the journalist and for WTO itself?

Because maybe they will think twice before they take it.

[Other language spoken]

So and then I have another question.

[Other language spoken]

OK, maybe this is more for UNESCO, but please the representative of BBU if they want to add something, Vanson and Guy, UNESCO has a mandate on the protection of journalists as the secretary of journalists reminded us on the 11th of November.

[Other language spoken]

I, I think Guy is the most indicated person to, to, to answer to this.

But of course UNESCO is very, very, very concerned with all kind of attack against journalists.

And unfortunately, I mean, we, we are reporting since more than 20 years, we are reporting each time there is a journalist killed.

But of course, we we are not satisfied with that and we want also to prevent and to find a way and to, to work on the security and safety of journalists.

But Guy may be more precisely you can, you may want to answer and, and, and give some insights to Gabriela Sotomayor.

[Other language spoken]

Well, of course journalists like anybody should not be above criticism.

But criticism is one thing and and attacks are another thing.

I don't, I don't know this particular situation, but attacks, when attacks are on the right of a person to exercise freedom of expression or a right of a journalist to do journalism attacks, they intend to stop the person from doing it or stop sources.

This is not in line with what international freedom of expression, free flow of information is about.

[Other language spoken]

But what I would say is that indeed the UN in many resolutions and the Human Rights Council have called on political actors to avoid the kind of rhetoric that can trigger these sorts of online attacks.

And actually at in this in this conference tomorrow and the next day, UNESCO will release this research, particularly about online attacks against women journalists.

And women journalists are being attacked because they're a woman who's doing journalism and not just doing the journalism.

And they're being attacked in a sexualized way and a very threatening way, which is a crime to to threaten people to that people are using speech to attack the journalists, right, to use speech.

Now, those crimes online also sometimes spill into offline violence.

So it's bad enough when it's online, but it's not as if it's a separate world.

So this research that is being released by UNESCO has so as a questionnaire answered by 1100 women more, in fact a bit more, but average 1100 women journalists around the world who report about the kinds of ***** that they have been receiving, how it impacts on them, how they try and deal with it.

And then there are recommendations in this report also that the newsrooms need to take this much more seriously, that when there's a ****** that's a criminal ******, it should be investigated, reported to the police and investigated.

The Internet companies have their part to play and so on.

So this is a very serious issue and we have to take it seriously because it does lead to the stifling of women journalists voices and other journalism and the stories that they are telling.

So it's very important.

Part of independence is indeed protecting the right of journalists to work without fear, and also without favour, but certainly without fear.

[Other language spoken]

I'm cautious of the time.

And Gabriella, I understand you have another question if you don't mind.

I, I get the floor to somebody who was not speaking then we've spoken.

Then if we have time, I come back to you, Peter, Kenny.

[Other language spoken]

Is that for Shinwa?

[Other language spoken]

Yeah, I'm a I'm actually a freelance journalist.

I work for Turkish media and South African Media and I'm also the vice president of the Foreign Correspondents Association in Switzerland.

Apps and one of the things about today's press conferences, we can see all the journalists who are taking part in this press conference.

It's Eunice always has open press conferences.

But I want to ask you if you were looking actually at the institutions of the in the UN family, say for instance, you know, like say The Who, which actually has blind press webinars for what it's caused.

It's bi weekly press conference.

It insist it will insisted at the beginning that this was because if there were more than 4500 journalists, it was a problem.

But they are never more than 500 journalists in any press conference.

Are you looking at the institutions, the very institutions that you're part of, as well as looking at bad press, fake press and bad governance?

[Other language spoken]

I don't know to whom to turn for this question.

Oh, sorry, I, I turned off my mic.

We, we obviously I, I don't think I can speak specifically for WHO and I'm sure you won't or you will ask this question to their spokesperson.

But obviously what's it has, what has been said by my colleagues and, and, and the general principles and mandates and the and the, and the resolutions that we that we abide to obviously also to be applied to the UN and to the UN family as much as any other institution.

[Other language spoken]

So I don't know if there's anything that you would like to add to that.

That's all.

[Other language spoken]

So I have Pierre, Pierre Rucci, the director of the club St de la Press, who would like to ask a question and then we will go back to Gabriela.

[Other language spoken]

I found out, yeah, you, you focused your your study on the public media service for sure.

But I just wanted to make a point on the on the private medias and wanted to know how do you evaluate the way they covered the the pandemic crisis as they have not the same constraints than the public media service have towards their government.

So you said that credibility and true trustfulness to the public service media was very, very ****.

But should it be even more higher for the private private media that are not in the same type of relation with governance?

This is a question to to lease Corbin especially.

Thank you very much, Pierre, It's nice to speak to you.

[Other language spoken]

Of course in this report and and the EBU itself focuses on on its members who who are all public service media organisations.

But in many countries you, you will find that the regulations are, are, are similar in terms of requirements on, on media organisations, although some sometimes of course they're not.

And there are different, there are different rules and, and regulations that they have to abide by.

What we think is is absolutely crucial is that there is a wide range of quality media and one thing that has come up this year very, very much for all of our members, but of course in the fully commercial sector and that the drop in commercial revenue has been incredibly damaging to quality news organisations this year.

Now that is not just a 2020 problem.

We know that the way that the the ad tech industry now works and the way that advertising has gone and the way that the platforms have influenced that have been really damaging to the the funding of any news organisations who rely on commercial income.

And in terms of what that does to the output, of course, you know, we're, we're all doing more with less and trying to be as efficient as possible and give our audiences the best value for money.

But at the end of the day, there needs to be reliable funding and support for all news organisations and media organisations.

Public service media is is absolutely crucial.

It serves it, it serves all of the public, doesn't just serve small sectors of it in the way that commercial companies can be more niche and more targeted.

But without competition, without friendly competition between news organisations, between media organisations that there is, there's, there is the, the public service is weakened.

And so we feel that it's, it is really important to have a strong industry, not just in the public service, in terms of how they are held accountable.

They have many different things that they need to be accountable to and they need to stay in business.

And I think that's the, the crucial thing.

It's it's many public service media have more reliable income and that allows them to, to make decisions, to be creative, to be innovative and to think to the future.

And if other companies are unable to do that, then it reduces their their ability to, to be brave, to do those big investigations then and to be to have that quality that they need in the industry.

Thank you very much.

And again, Mike, if you want to compliment, just raise your hand.

But Gabriella also had another question.

Thank you very much.

In 2012, Regina Martinez, a processor journalist Mexican, was murdered in Veracruz with total impunity.

And recently, several foreign journalist living outside of Mexico announced that they will continue with the investigation that led to her death.

Is this the solution?

Do you think this is the solution?

[Other language spoken]

It is only part of a solution.

Of course, of course we need, I mean, crimes against journalists must be investigated.

And even if it, even if these crimes have taken place many years ago, it is important to, to really find the, the, the, the people who are responsible for that.

And that's why over the last year, UNESCO has been working very hard with prosecutors and judges because we, we found also, and it is the experience and it has been the experience, in particular in Latin America, that many judges and in particular even in the Supreme Courts do not know the basic laws about freedom expression.

So we have done over the last years a very important work with all these, let's say the, the family of prosecutors and, and judges and even the the, the most, if I remember well, there was a MOOC online and there is still a MOOC and more than 6000 judges have been trained to freedom of expression and, and, and, and media.

And there's more specifically about press freedom.

So I think it is absolutely key to continue investigating and to to made accountable, let's say the people who are responsible for the ****** of journalists and all kind of attacks.

So that's why I mean, we, we, we but but it is a big fight.

We know that 95% of the crimes against journalists are impugn.

And this is a very sad news.

8787 Sorry, sorry.

[Other language spoken]

I think I call your number you've got yeah, I, I think the number was the Brazil.

The the Brazil numbers, I remain with that.

Guy, you want to add something to that?

[Other language spoken]

Well, as Vanson said, you know, it's important to tackle this at a legal level, at one at one level, because often one does find that there's sometimes questions of political will, but there's also questions of capacity.

And so one has to address both those.

And so this is good news that UNESCO and this International Association of Prosecutors have signed a memorandum of cooperation and we launch a guidelines for the prosecutors now tomorrow.

So that is a way of, of beginning to give real hard guidelines.

[Other language spoken]

In fact, now the number is 17,000 including in in Africa.

It's judges are one important category, but the prosecutors are, are, are very important.

Then in terms of the, the work that the journalists are doing to carry on the story.

Indeed, there are projects, I'm not sure if this one that you referred to as part of the Forbidden Stories project, which is precisely to send the message to those who killed journalists that the story will not be killed.

And so don't waste your time to **** the journalist because others will continue.

And at UNESCO we do have a, a special fund called the Global Media Defence Fund, if you you can research that.

And we are supporting some of the work to continue these stories, but also journalistic work as to why an investigation is not taking place or why an investigation is so slow and to try and get some journalistic spotlight onto the question of ending the impunity.

And so we have not a lot of money, but we have some small grants to support the journalists to tell the stories and also to tell the story.

Why is there impunity?

[Other language spoken]

Thank you very much, Guy.

I'm told that Mike wanted to intervene, but her electronic hand doesn't work.

So Mike, I will give you the floor and then I'm afraid we will have to wrap up because we have another press conference in 10 minutes.

Mike, thank you very much.

Yeah, I was raising my physical hand, but it's difficult for you to do now.

I wanted to add a few things also to the first questions actually that were asked because I think we are talking about a relationship that we have with our audience as journalists, public service journalists or private, private journalists, commercial journalists.

But there's it's about a relationship and we shouldn't forget about the human angle in all of this discussion to have to have the connection and to be able to find each other in the discussion.

It's also, it's not just a rational thing.

We all have confirmation bias and when we start debating about the content of, of issues, we might lose each other.

But when we find each other in humanity and in solidarity, and there's actually hope and a bigger grounds for, for a more rounded discussion, that also means for journalism to be sometimes less, well, not arrogant maybe, but it'd be a little bit more modest in sometimes in, in the way that they address issues to build a relationship with audiences and to have a broader debate than just to have a pro and a con conversation.

And I know this sounds a bit soft, but I think it's an important first step to make in, in your relationship with the audience before additional you build on that with your, of course, with your journalistic professionalism and transparency and all of those other issues.

But I wanted to just stress that we're all human and that we can find each other in that human angle in these times.

Thank you very much, Mike.

And as I said, I, I, it's been really fascinating.

[Other language spoken]

I'm just turning around to see if there's any final word that wants to be said.

No, thank you very much.

Thank you to both of you.

Thank you to UNESCO for organising such a fantastic conference tomorrow and the day after and for EBU to bring us the results of this incredible report.

Really fascinating report.

I would just like to remind the journalist, our journalist that say in 10 minutes, also on the platform, you will have the press conference by UNDP on what has been achieved since 2015 and how to keep up, keep up with climate ambitions with Cassie Flynn, UNDP climate advisor.

I hope you'll be able to connect for that.

Otherwise, thank you very much.

I hope you'll be attending the UNESCO conference in great numbers today and the day after.

And I guess EBU is also continuing to be available for questions if you have any on the report.

Thanks to everybody.

Have a nice afternoon.

[Other language spoken]