HRC Press Conference: UN Special Rapporteur on Russia

Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us at this press conference.

Our speaker today is Miss Mariana Katsorova, who is the Special Rapporteur on the human rights situation in the Russian Federation.

Miss Katsorova has over 2 decades of experience as a journalist and human rights defender leader in the war zones of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, Chechnya and Ukraine.

Her human rights experience includes heading Amnesty International's investigations of human rights in the Russian Federation.

She'll address you today on her report to the 57th session of the Human Rights Council.

We'll begin with opening remarks by the Special Rapporteur and then open the floor for questions.

Miss Katsorova, you have the floor.

Thank you very much and thank you so much for your interest and to coming to hear about Russia.

As you probably know, my interactive dialogue has now been moved to tomorrow entirely at 10:00, so I hope you will be following that as well.

The situation in the Russian Federation has got much worse since my report last year and the country is now run by a state sponsored system of fear and punishment, including the use of torture, with absolute impunity.

Human rights defenders, journalists and political figures are persecuted and incarcerated in greater numbers.

Anti war dissent of any kind kind is criminalised.

Police violence is condoned.

Arbitrary arrests and detentions are widespread.

Prison conditions have worsened, with increased solitary confinement and death in custody particularly used against political prisoners.

There are no independent institutions left to safeguard the rule of law and access to justice.

All of this has been made legal by new or expanded laws that violate human rights and are used to suppress civil society.

Descending views and political opposition.

What is the cost of dissent in today's Russia?

Dissent against the Ukraine war.

To begin with, it's extremely ****.

The cost is extremely ****.

Russians are getting shockingly long prison sentences.

Seven years for reading a poem, saying a prayer or producing a play perceived to be anti war.

Seven years for posting on social media a United Nations report about the Ukraine war.

Peaceful demonstrators are arrested and many beaten up by police without recourse.

There is deliberate use of torture, no treatment in places of detention.

Anti war activists are being punished by forced psychiatric treatment, very much reminiscent of the practise against Soviet dissidents and human rights defenders during the Soviet times.

Some journalists just doing their jobs reporting have been imprisoned for up to 22 years on trumped up charges and as a warning to others to stick to the state's version of reality.

More than 500 people have been prosecuted for spreading fake news or similar charges under the war censorship laws.

At least 30 journalists are currently in gaol on fabricated criminal charges.

Many journalists have had to flee the country.

Most independent media have shut down or moved abroad.

There are more than 1300 over political prisoners in gaol.

Many are tortured or their conditions of detention amount to torture in your treatment.

Alexei Navalny's death in state custody in February is just one example of the brutal treatment of the political opposition.

Russian citizens were not even allowed to mourn his death without the prospect of police harassment and arrest.

Lawyers are particularly prosecuted and persecuted.

They're disbarred and intimidated for providing legal services to persecuted groups or individuals.

Some with **** profile clients have had to flee the country.

The state's legal system violates Russia's human rights.

The war censorship laws make it a crime to tell the truth about what is going on in the war against Ukraine.

Penalists Penalties can include long prison sentences and crippling financial punishment.

A journalist and his wife had all their assets confiscated because of their criticism of the war.

[Other language spoken]

This is all in inverted commas are terms used to target and shut down the work of media, NGOs, human rights activists, and anyone who engages in civic activism or expresses an alternative viewpoint from that of the government.

Penalties can include prosecution, fines and prison sentences.

Even Nobel Prize winners are not exempt like Muratov.

Dmitry Muratov, the editor in chief of Nova Gazeta newspaper.

Serious charges like treason, espionage, extremism and other laws on national security are being used against journalists and to imprison people for trivial anti war actions like six years in prison for terrorism for a teenager who painted some anti war graffiti, 12 years for treason for a woman who made a small donation to Ukrainian charity.

Recruitment for war against Ukraine targets criminals, convicted prisoners and minorities, indigenous peoples, migrants and other vulnerable groups, often under coercion.

Conscientious objection is not respected during mobilisation, and conscientious objectors are sent to fight in Ukraine.

Torture and other severe punishments are used to force unwilling recruits to fight or to punish regular soldiers, with new and harsher punishments added to the law.

In their conduct of the war against Ukraine, the Russian authorities have violated a wide range of international human rights and humanitarian law.

Ukrainian soldiers captured by Russian military forces are not accorded prisoner of war status, so are de facto not protected under the Geneva Conventions.

More than 1600 Ukrainian civilians detained by Russian military forces in Ukraine are currently held in detention by Russian authorities.

Reports from those released in prisoner exchanges describe horrific conditions in Russian prisons, with torture, **** and sexualized violence widespread.

Many of those deported to Russian prisons are facing charges of terrorism, terrorism, espionage or related crimes, facing from anything from 20 years imprisonment to life imprisonment.

Given that the Russian authorities are not recognising combatants as Pows, they are charged and tried in military courts.

But as civilians, we shouldn't forget that more than 19,000 Ukrainian children have been, but we don't know the exact number, have been forcibly transferred or deported from Ukraine and only 388 have been returned.

Russian authorities have failed to provide any information as to their whereabouts.

My report details many more violations.

You have it in front of you.

Most of the violations, and the focus of the report of course, has been on civil and violations of civil and political rights, particularly in connection to any anti war dissent, an expression which the Russian authorities have been trying to silence.

We should, and I as a Special Rapporteur, have always been underlying the link.

We cannot look at the human rights situation in Russia without seeing the stark link between aggression abroad and repression at home.

And anything that is happening inside Russia at the moment.

It's coloured by the ongoing, already in its third year aggressive war against Ukraine.

I should also mention that the recent incursion in August on 6th of August of the Ukrainian forces in the Russian Kursk region has also left desperate civilians caught between the two warring sides.

They have been various appeals from these civilians.

We don't know their exact number.

According to some estimates or some information coming particularly from Suja region, 369 civilians are trapped.

Other estimates speak of 698 civilians.

Others even speak up until 1000 civilians.

They are appealing to their own government.

They have been appealing to the Red Cross, to the ICRC, to us as United Nations, to my mandate, to the **** Commissioner for Human Rights, to the UN Secretary General, and they have been asking for humanitarian corridor.

We're monitoring the situation with these civilians.

As you know, my mandate covers and I work on the Russian Federation within its recognised borders.

I do not cover the occupied territories of Ukraine under the effective control of the Russian government.

However, that doesn't mean that the war is not in a way moving between the two countries.

And as I said in my report, I have particularly paid attention to the deported in their thousands Ukrainian civilians and military who have been deported to Russian prisons, kept incommunicado, kept without without charges, without access to a lawyer or any information to their relatives.

At the same times, the civilians in Kursk region within the Russian Federation's official borders were now caught in in between.

The warring sides also deserve absolute attention and humanitarian corridors so they could evacuate.

I hope the ICRC and will be allowed access, as well as the United Nations.

There has been, apart from these appeals, also conversations, but the two warring sides have to agree to that.

But the Ukrainian government and the Russian government, Maybe I spoke too long.

Maybe I should just mention to you a couple of issues that are important in this report.

In addition to an update of the political repressions in Russia, I have also focused on the violence against women and girls, because this is 1 issue that was mentioned last year.

But we didn't really, I didn't really manage to go deeper into it in the report.

The repression, sorry, the recruitment of convicted prisoners, thousands of them, I think one estimate is once 170,000 convicted violent criminals who were first sent to recruited to fight in Ukraine in return to pardons and shortened sentences.

Now it has become an official Russian Ministry of Defence policy.

There is a new law and they officially are recruited to fight against Ukraine.

Many of them who return, and this is an emerging trend, have been perpetrating new violent crimes to begin to begin with against women, against girls, against children, including sexual violence and killings.

This has increased the violence against women in Russia, which already is on a very **** level, with thousands of women dying each year as a result of domestic violence and other forms of violence against women.

However, there is no law in Russia distinctly criminalising domestic violence or gender based violence.

The situation in the North Caucasus is even more shocking with women and girls being subjected to forced marriages, to the so-called honour killings and crimes against honour of their relatives and female genital mutilation, something which many people don't even realise, particularly in Dagestan.

In the North Caucasus, girls continue to suffer in silence.

There is no law or no effort by the Russian authorities to actually outlaw and stop and end the practise of female genital mutilation of girl girls.

Thank you for now and I expect your questions.

I don't want to take the stage.

[Other language spoken]

Thank you to the special Rapporteur.

We have a lot of journalists also joining us online today, but as usual, we'll first start with the reporters in the room and then move on.

To those of you online, please state your name and organisation before asking a question.

Give you the bell.

[Other language spoken]

I work for the Spanish news agency FMI.

Would like to know if there is you have documented any attempt of mobilisation by the families of soldiers in the front alive or death, if there is any movement to to know about them, about their fate, if this is allowed or not.

Because the I think that the problematic of all the thousands of thousands of young people in the front.

We don't talk about very about them very much and more most of our many of them they are forced to be to be there.

So if you can maybe explain a little bit on that and also on the on this policy, defence ministry policy that you just mentioned.

Is this the same that the just recently President Putin signed to in an attempt to increase the number of soldiers in in the army?

Is this is this the same or this is another one?

Yes, thank you very much.

You're talking about the Russian soldiers, right, Not the Ukrainian soldiers.

Yes, I will start with your second question.

Yes, in March 2024, there was a federal law adopted, which actually the Ministry of Defence recruitment of prisoners to join the war against Ukraine has been regulated.

[Other language spoken]

While since the beginning of the war we, and that was in my previous report, we've been monitoring a trend of prisoners being recruited illegally by the Wagner Group, by the paramilitary formation Wagner.

So according to approximate tax estimates, as I said, 170,000 inmates, including by the way, 1000 women convicted prisoners are being sent to the war, to the front line in exchange for pardons or related or reduced sentences.

So this is, I mean, I've been worrying basically about their return of many because a lot of these prisoners have been serving really long sentences for ****, for, you know, for killing, for ******, for violent crimes.

And we even know that some of them who have re offended because they stay for a certain amount of time in Ukraine fighting, then they're released.

They go into the peaceful life already without criminal records and re offending.

The problem is that courts in Russia, the judges have been using the participation in the war or the so-called special military operation as they call it, as mitigating factor to actually pass lenient sentences to these prisoners.

And not only to these prisoners.

Anybody, anyone who participated in the war then comes back in the civilian life and real and and commits a crime.

The fact that their hero from the special military operation is used by the judges to pass lenient sentences even for crime, says ******, for which usually you can receive up to a life imprisonment.

And your first question was about the mobilised mobilisation practises.

Is there any, any mobilisation by families in Russia?

[Other language spoken]

Families, families of soldiers that I have young people sent to the to the front, recruited in in some way forced for recruited, yes.

I don't know about the families, but it's individuals, you know, that are either forced or they know that if, if they are called up to mobilisation, if there is no recognition of conscientious object objection for the mobilisation, although there is, it's, it's a right in the enshrined in the Constitution of Russia that you can, if you're a conscientious objector to military service, you can receive, you have the right to an alternative civilian service, although this doesn't apply to the mobilisation according to the Russian authorities.

So basically anybody who refused call up papers is then treated as deserter and criminally charged as deserter, and there are many cases like that.

Also the practises of the Russian authorities to mobilise men into the army.

I've observed that they have been targeting faraway places in the regions of Russia, in Siberia, you know, in small towns, but also targeting indigenous people, national minorities even.

You know, I've been following the developments in the war almost daily since the beginning of it.

Not anymore so much, but I remember that in the beginning when Russia attacked Ukraine, you would see on the front line, on the Russian side, there were almost no Slavic faces.

It was the Buriatians, it was the Colomicians, it was the Chechens, it was the national minorities of Russia.

And as you know, Russia is a very multicultural state, but also the indigenous people who many of them are from very small numbered nations.

And by this massive mobilisation, most of it forced, they are facing extinction because also civil society have been looking at the rate from what they could gather, the rate of casualties of, you know, of dead, dead, dead soldiers that are returning.

And they have a whole statistics drawn out that basically the mobilisation of indigenous people, particularly from small numbered nations is massive and the death, death rate is massive, which is threatening them with extinction.

So yes, the mobilisation hasn't been so brutal in Moscow and Saint Petersburg, obviously, because these are the more sophisticated.

It's the capital, it's the most sophisticated places where people know their rights.

But when you go 100 miles away on on the train from Moscow and Saint Petersburg and let alone in the faraway regions of Siberia, as you know, Russia is a gigantic country.

People don't even feel they have a choice.

They don't even know their rights.

Or I have documented cases where the military goes door to door.

They also, you know, and just drag out the men from indigenous villages or they're using the vulnerabilities of many people who are, you know, they're alluring them with promises for good salary because people are quite poor in many regions of Russia.

[Other language spoken]

Coming brief, The New York Times.

I wonder if you have found anything like a credible or or or solid number of casualties sustained by Russian forces in Ukraine in the course of this war.

And when you say that some of the minorities are facing extinction, I wonder if you could be a bit more specific and say which ones particularly you think are, are most at risk from this kind of death toll?

And one other question, you mentioned 388 children have been returned.

Ukrainian children have been returned.

Is that part of a a continuing trickle of, of returnees or was that something that happened in the first two years and has long since stopped?

[Other language spoken]

Thank you very much.

[Other language spoken]

Which page is our Indigenous people?

It's all in the report on the casualties.

As you know, in any war being an aggressive invasion like the current war against Ukraine, both sides.

And I've been to many wars in the world in in my past and I know that there is no reliable figures on casualties because this is the best kept secret by both sides for whatever reasons.

But also for the Russian authorities, clearly they would had a lot of angry mothers, a lot of angry families probably if the the exact number of casualties is released.

So no, that wasn't my purpose, to go and count the dead, dead soldiers in Russia or in Ukraine.

But I would say the UN Human Rights Monitoring Mission has been counting at least from open sources already for many years.

The mission exists.

It's the Kai commissioner's mission since 2014.

So they have been releasing figures on casualties, but I don't know to what extent their information is reliable, either because they're following open sources or information from relatives who already had, you know, receiving the dead bodies of their loved ones.

I think there is also there is.

[Other language spoken]

There is also, there was a recent I saw again something around the figure of 80,000 which Wall Street Journal has pointed out about casualties in Ukraine.

And I think the government wasn't happy about it because they were saying no, it's much less the president was coming out to to speak.

This is not something that one can be sure and nobody will be happy if both sides in in war.

One thing is clear, it's even monitoring.

You know what's happening is really that it's a massive amount of casualties.

It is on both sides I would say in terms of the indigenous people and 2nd.

Yes, the report is only 10,700 words, so I can't, I don't think we actually managed to list all of the ones that are threatened, but I'll be very happy to give you their names.

They're not necessarily listed in the report, but yes, we have this information from Indigenous people and particularly from the small numbered one.

I remember I have a regular consultations with a group of Indigenous leaders.

So I meet with them and I request information on all the worrying, the community issues.

One of them being by the way, which I think is, is very important is the, and this is also in the report.

It's the reprisals against human rights organisations for communicating with the United Nations, for participating in United Nations meetings and a number of several, at least we know indigenous Russian human rights organisations.

There has been a move as a reprisal I believe to close them down in Russia.

And some of the, you know, they, they miraculously got ECOSOC status, which is also a very cumbersome procedure where governments in New York are able to actually, and the Russian government has been trying to prevent Russian organisations from getting an ECOSOC status.

Now with indigenous organisations, they're trying to, they're writing letters to the UN in New York, to the Special Committee on ECOSOC, asking that these organisations, their ECOSOC status is taken.

I consider these reprisals for their active role at the UN.

You should know that the indigenous people of Russia has been largely invisible for, I don't know forever.

That's why with my mandate, I'm very much committed to give them a voice and to give a prominent space for the violations happening against them, one of them being disproportionate and disproportionate mobilisation.

And it's very difficult to follow it.

As you know, I don't have access to Russia even if I did, because they live in remote areas.

I was even told, for example, that in the Republic of Saka Yakutia, usually the indigenous, usually indigenous men are involved deep in the taiga in the forest being, you know, taking care of animals of that's what they do.

This is their traditional work.

And I was told this story how the Russian military said, send helicopters, military helicopters to go and get a bunch of indigenous men to take them directly to fight, to recruit them, to fight in the war against Ukraine.

Mind you that with this region of Republic of Sakaiya Kutia, people don't even have access to medical care because they're so far away.

There are no roads, they cannot and there is no contact with the capital.

So people die, for example, of appendicitis because there is no helicopters to come and get them to give them access to medical care.

But the military put a special effort to send these helicopters to virtually kidnap this man and send them to fight.

So there are many stories.

The indigenous people are also of Russia are also trying to, you know, they're getting strength as human rights defenders.

And I see the role of my mandate also of including them as much or encouraging them to be included in the mainstream human rights, human rights, civil Society of Russia, which they haven't been for many, many decades.

If there are no other questions in the room, we'll go, Oh, I'm sorry, Isabel.

Yes, there was 1 outstanding question about children return of Ukrainian children.

Yes, it's very difficult to get to come by information.

Yes, these are usually the, the, the figure that is quoted are the ones that were returned in the first two years.

You know that a lot of these children are in, they have been in a confidential process of adoption or they have already been adopted through a it's, it's a confidential procedure and it's very difficult to even get information.

The authorities, of course, are not willing to release it, as you know, not on the children, not on the deported Ukrainians who are now in prison without charges.

There is still the investigation by the International Criminal Court's prosecutor, prosecutor, which I hope is getting somewhere ahead.

I mean, I haven't seen my role as investigating or monitoring in particular the issue of children for several reasons.

One, not to really be in on the way of the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court's investigation because that's actually collecting the evidence that could be used in court.

Two, it's very difficult to put on the spot and try to get information from defence lawyers, Russian or human rights defenders, as I said, because this procedure is confidential of adoption and they could be prosecuted for violating the law on confidentiality on adoption.

So the information, the same goes with the Russian civil society.

However, I know that there has been very brave Russian activists who's been trying to help really return some of the children, sometimes even under false pretence.

I'm not going to go further, but I know they've been almost risking their lives to get some groups of children, Ukrainian children, returned.

And of course, information comes from the returned children who are already in Ukraine.

And as you've noticed in my report, I've been talking about some children being subjected to physical or even sexual violence in the Russian institutions where they've been held, meaning children's homes or educational institutions.

There are allegations about this.

Isabel, if you have a follow up?

Yes, it's a follow up on on on my first question on on the recruitment, because what I I was asking just you, you mentioned this situation for prisoners being released to go to the front.

But this is you.

You said this this it was decided on March, but last week I found you from the news.

President Putin orders Russia to boost the size of the army by 180 eighty thousand troops.

So where is to your knowledge what?

Where is all these people coming from?

[Other language spoken]

It can be the the reason for social discontent inside Russia, this new need of more men to go to the front.

Well, with the mobilisation in Russia, it was open but but it was never closed.

So the mobilisation is going on all the time throughout the war and the conditions for mobilisation are the same.

I mean, on paper, these are men who had been through military service or have been, you know, serving, serving in the military previously or have rare professions that could serve the military.

Nothing to my knowledge has changed.

I mean, in parallel, they continue the recruitment of prisoners.

This also now, since March, has been regularised by a federal law.

So the statement of the president of Russia that they need more men.

You know, they have been needing more men regularly and they have been getting these men.

Nothing unusual whether that would lead to a discontentive in Russia I don't know.

We we have to monitor the situation.

However, Russia is 150 million people, 149 and whatever, almost 150 million, so 180,000 is not so such a big number, which I suppose they cannot accommodate through their mobilisation.

What I'm monitoring in my mandate is when they do force mobilisation, where people are kidnapped, where torture is used against soldiers who do not want to fight in Ukraine, even soldiers who are already in the army, they don't want to follow orders, criminal orders, I would say sometimes to, to ***** or to participate in the war or they claim conscientious objection and they're not given this conscientious objection.

And I have included in my report the use of various methods of coercion, punishment of soldiers as well, who are already on the front line but who refuse to fight.

And they usually put them in pits, in the in the ground to keep them without water and food, torture them, beat them in order to, you know, to force them to continue fighting in the war.

So that's what I monitor the violations.

As you know, mobilising people, even Spain probably is the same.

Mobilising people for war is not a human rights violation per SE.

I mean, we could all be called up.

[Other language spoken]

I could be called up by my government if they decide to aggressively go against another country.

But their human rights violations that are part of this process, and this is what is important to monitor.

And I also have a recommendation to governments of the European Union and the international community to pay a special attention to the conscientious objectors and to the men that actually refused to be part of this war.

And they're now asking for political asylum or any form of protection in our countries.

And we should not return them back.

I mean, this is to the governments because basically they have been brave enough to to refuse to risk, you know, imprisonment.

And but they ran through the border.

They're now in our countries and they're asking for protection.

So if returned, that would be a violation of the principle of non rightful MO because for sure they'll be tortured and for sure they'll be imprisoned for refusing to fight against Ukraine.

[Other language spoken]

Anya Spilo from AFP in Geneva, some kind of follow up of what you just said.

Do you have any figures elements about the indications about the number of Russian fleeing Russia or being able to to to flee Russia to Europe?

And on the worsening of the situation that the human rights situation that you mentioned at the beginning of your briefing, how would you say would you qualify this worsening?

Is it something that is more widespread or it's more or it's the severity of the situation?

If you could be more specific to, to qualify this worsening.

[Other language spoken]

To qualify what?

The worsening of the situation?

The worsening of the situation.

So how many Russians are fleeing, I mean.

We don't have exact figure.

However, for example, I know that when the mobilisation was open, because we were just on the subject of mobilised men or men who refused to be mobilised, there was up to I think a million men that actually were running through the border to other countries where they can.

Then there was, you know, there the journalist, the human rights defenders, they have already left, you know a lot of them.

But we don't have exact number.

I know that there was a number about something like 600,000 in Europe.

Are people that actually oppose the the government, their government critics or oppose the war against Ukraine and they have left Russia and are currently in Europe.

I don't think necessarily at the moment there are many, because many governments, some governments have been very welcoming and doing a lot to protect the journalists, the human rights defenders, the dissenters, the anti war critics.

But some governments have been doing exactly the opposite.

[Other language spoken]

I recently met in one European country, an indigenous leader who's been waiting for three years for an asylum interview and he's been already thinking of a suicide.

He shared with me he cannot return to Russia because his activism was against the war and against forced mobilisation of indigenous people.

And he's now waiting for an asylum interview in a immigration detention for three years.

He actually shared with me that he has now an Ukrainian girlfriend and they cannot in this new country and they cannot really even see each other much.

They cannot live together because he's still waiting for his asylum interview.

One example only, but I could give many.

So blanket policies of reaction to what's happening in Russia have been really affecting first and foremost, the human rights defenders from Russia.

They by some countries, because they don't have freedom of movement, a number of them continue to work in Russia, although on the brink of being detained, arrested, they're already branded as foreign agents, but they are returning and continuing to work.

It's very difficult to get visas if you're a Russian human rights defender in many countries.

And mind you, the Russian human rights defenders are also assisting the Ukrainian civil society now in investigating or monitoring war crimes.

And the situation with the deported Ukrainians, the deported children, they were working clandestinely together.

But there was a case, one European government even deported from their borders, one Russian human rights defender was going to Ukraine in order to help the Ukrainian civil society.

Deported not to Russia, she's already living in exile.

But I think this is a shame because this is it's extremely important that we contribute to the survival of the Russian civil society and the Russian anti war critics.

It's never easy in any war to be against your government or to be against the war effort.

But imagine Russia with this draconian clampdown on any anti war expression and any dissenting voice different than the government.

So you're asking me to qualify how the situation has worsened?

I mean it's all in the report, but I mean just in in AI think I already in a way unpacked it.

They're more their additions to the legislation on foreign agent, on undesirable organisations that are further curtailing any, you know, any functioning of, of human rights activism, human rights defenders or or independent media.

The lawyers at the moment has been the new target.

I mean this the lawyers, the defence lawyers usually are the final frontier because everybody in any society has the right to a legal defence.

But now the Russian human rights lawyers have been absolutely targeted.

Many have been disbarred.

But for representing political dissidents or anti war critics or for representing Ukrainians as well at the same time they have been imprisoned.

It's not only Navalny's lawyers and charged with extremism, terrorism charges with extremism in the case of Navalny's lawyers, but there is a new law on advocateura on the legal profession, which essentially is another draconian method of monitoring the activities of the defence lawyers.

Do you know, we were talking about indigenous people in many regions of Russia because we were trying to facilitate a lawyer of taking up a case of 1 shaman who was protested single handedly against the big oil company to save the sacred grounds of his people.

There was not a single lawyer in this region that was ready to take up his case.

So lawyers from Moscow and Saint Petersburg had to be sent because usually the local lawyers under under a lot of scrutiny.

So it's becoming impossible in Russia to actually even have a, a pretend pretence of, of a legal defence, let alone the Co independence of the judiciary.

I mean, another very worrying situation was after the terrorist attack at Crocus City Hall in Moscow.

We all saw how tortured half dead suspects of in the terrorist attack was not only brought to a judge who didn't even notice that these people were barely breeding and they were all scarred as a result of torture with without one year without an eye.

At the same time, all of this was portrayed on Russian television, which actually showed a new level of the government approving, normalising and condoning the use of torture.

Some of the leading media propagandist figures like Mrs Simonyan even was cheering in encouraging the use of torture.

The cutting of the Year of the Suspect.

We also saw how Tajiks in particular, but also migrants from Central Asia and other countries have been particularly targeted after the terrorist attack.

Many of them had to flee the country.

They were literally, many of them ill treated, detained, subjected to, you know, to target the cheques.

So yes, I mean, I could go on and on, but it's the repression has tightened since last year.

And I think these signs, and particularly after Navalny's death and when people were not even allowed to mourn, I mean, a priest, the religious figures, somebody received seven years for a prayer, you know, against the war.

Another priest who wanted to have a mourning, you know, a service for Navalny, was arrested only because he wanted to have a religious service.

After Navalny's death, LGBT people, you know, somebody was arrested, a young woman in a cafe, because she had earrings frog shaped with a rainbow.

She was detained because she was accused of promoting the symbol of extremist organisation, because since last November the Russian Supreme Court pronounced the entire LGBT movement in Russia and abroad as extremist.

This is a very serious criminal offence, by the way, carrying very serious penalties and the repression started.

So this community has been driven even more underground.

Anti war poems cannot be spoken to.

Poets received after being tortured for their anti war poems.

They received seven years, one of them seven years imprisonment, the second 500 calf.

I mean, if this is not a worsening situation, I don't know what it is basically.

I also have part in my report talking about the massive now surveillance of everybody on the Internet.

Please have a look at that because that also shows that the Russian authorities are not only physically going after the dissidents and anti war critics and human rights defenders, but also now through the Internet.

[Other language spoken]

Can you take the questions online quickly because we have three Jeremy.

[Other language spoken]

I'll, I'll be quick.

[Other language spoken]

Sorry I didn't receive the the report my emails.

[Other language spoken]

We could verify that for me.

Please question about the the convicted people who are now fighting on the frontline.

You, I think you mentioned 170,000, what you said about them returning and winning new crimes against women.

Do you have, I know it's really hard to have figures, but do you have an estimation how many of them at least have returned freely?

I mean, after I think fought on the on the frontline and maybe your last one is that you, you, you mentioned, you answered Anya's question on how would you qualify the deterioration of, of the, the situation there.

But the the another way to put it, are they human rights left in Russia?

That would be my question.

[Other language spoken]

It's really good we're thinking whether there are any human rights left in Russia.

[Other language spoken]

I believe that we there will will be a hope for human rights left in Russia until the moment when we have the brave human rights defenders and journalists and lawyers that are still working inside Russia despite the odds, despite the danger.

I think it's time to actually look at you know, if we could protect the individuals, that's what matters.

The brave individuals, they will carry the flame further in that new Russia one day of the Russia of human rights.

I'm often asked by politicians or governments, oh, you know, but we need to actually protect the politicians.

We need to nurture new politicians in Russia.

I always answer to the government.

Actually the future politicians of Russia hopefully will come, I somehow feel will come from the civil society.

They will come from the human rights defenders.

And these are in fact the politicians we want to see.

[Other language spoken]

Because I didn't speak about the elections, but it's in the report, the recent presidential elections, which were, you know, there was really no, no, no choice in this elections when the only two election candidates who were against the war, openly against the war in Ukraine, they were not allowed to even run.

So you cannot even think that there could be politicians.

And Navalny died in detention.

We have got enough.

Another politician who is very ill, still in detention, seven years imprisonment.

Now they're increasing to further charges.

Only because he was against the war and against the staging.

Some superficial children's paintings exhibition for 1st of June of happy Russian children pictures.

And he said I'm sorry, while our army is killing Ukrainian children, we cannot have this happy paintings exhibition.

For that he received seven years and he's still in prison.

There is hope for human rights in Russia.

But mind you, the government is and the authorities are doing everything to **** that cope, to silence the the messengers of hope, the human rights activists, the the government critics, the civil society, the media, the journalists, the lawyers and anybody of course who is different could be an easy easily given to the people.

As you know, these are the ones that are actually responsible for everything.

The LGBT movement, then the second one pronounced by the Supreme Court as extremist was the so-called, we don't know who they are, but the separatist movement.

And this is also used to close down indigenous peoples organisations, national minorities organisations in Russia, anybody who they haven't really closed down previously in the past two years.

Your question was also about, there was a first question, which was about you said that you didn't manage to receive the report.

The report is online.

It's hidden because the UN has this very difficult website or the Human Rights Council.

But I'll be happy to send you the report.

We have it in Russian as well, in order to reach the Russian people.

There was a question about the I think it was on how many soldiers have returned the prisoners.

Is that what you meant, The 170, would you like to repeat?

Yes, it was about how many statistics I remember.

Do we have now statistics on this new trend of increasing the violence against women or reoffending by these prisoners?

No, there is no such statistics, unfortunately, because this trend is now forming and the Russian civil society have been collecting information mainly in order to be really factual.

They're trying to monitor the court records of any cases that have come to court.

This is how we know about the leniency of sentencing of those who participate as heroes of the special military operation by the judges.

It's not only the prisoners and the, you know, the convicted criminals that are re offending when returning to civilian life.

Mind you, we have observed that after the two wars in Chechnya.

We observed that with the so-called Afghan Afghan syndrome earlier in the 1980s when the Soviet Union was fighting in Afghanistan.

The level of trauma, the level of atrocities, if you want, that, people often are forced, soldiers are forced to participate in because it's either their life or they have to or they follow the criminal orders.

I think the level of trauma leads to a number of men mobilised, men who are returning without being former prisoners to to being involved to begin with in domestic violence, violence against women in their own family, violence against children.

So we have to understand this is now evolving.

The war hasn't even finished.

But with the prisoners, it's, as I said, the civil society is following.

I'm also following with my team any information that we can get through public sources, through the media and then through the court records.

But certainly there is a trend and there is an increase.

[Other language spoken]

Yes, thanks for taking it.

It was about political prisoners, please.

The estimate of 1300 looks a bit bigger than previous ones I've seen.

And I was just wondering is that because more have been imprisoned or was the scale of it previously not well known?

And could you say something about how you sourced it and and how many of those prisoners are really at risk of of death because of the conditions that you described in your report?

[Other language spoken]

There was some question about increase in political prisoners, increase in political prisoners.

And the second one was about Emma.

What was the second question?

Sorry, just just the estimate.

Has it gotten bigger or was the scale previously not known?

What risks they face and the political prisoners, right.

Political business, The 1300 you described, Yes.

And you had one more question, which was about what?

Or it was just one question.

It was one big question.

OK, sorry, we can barely hear.

[Other language spoken]

I mean the the, the the estimates we have.

For over 1300 one 1300 plus political prisoners, you're saying that it has increased, well, obviously it has increased their new laws or amendments to laws that has been introduced.

And of course these are not just demonstrators, people that participate in anti war marches, which actually there has been a total crackdown on this.

So we haven't really seen recently such St activity, apart from, of course, following the death of Alexei Navalny, when a lot of people were immediately detained, arrested, who were even laying flowers in front of improvised shrines for Navalny, usually in front of monuments from the Stalinist, commemorating the victims of the Stalinist repressions.

But also, as you know, people have been also detained who were queuing to be at Navalny's funeral or not even allowed to to come closer.

So yes, there is an increase in the political prisoners.

We don't even know the entire number of who and when he has been detained in various regions the Russian civil society is monitoring.

They have various methods.

Memorial for example, is more kind of conservative in their methods of estimation.

Over the info is another organisation with a lot of volunteers, young volunteers inside Russia who continue to work clandestinely inside the Russian Federation.

So we get information, but it's, you know, maybe the political prisoners are much higher number.

[Other language spoken]

At the same on the same token, if you want, we don't even know how many Ukrainians have been deported because they're kept incommunicado and without charges.

I just reminded myself, because if we're talking that we don't know the Russian political prisoners, we, we certainly don't know the number of Ukrainians detained, deported and then detained incommunicado.

I mean many of them I consider subjected to enforced disappearance.

[Other language spoken]

With the political prisoners, there is a trend of of course of increased use of torch, conditions of detention amounting to torture, renewal treatment, solitary confinement.

I mean, Navalny was put in a punishment cell.

This whole, you know, dichotomy of using punishment cells, particularly against political prisoners is another very worrying trend.

This is how they lose their health.

This is how they additional pressure is put on them.

Conditions are totally torturous in these punishment cells.

Navalny was put for something like 396 days if or 94 days if I'm not mistaken, again and again and again in in punishment cells, you're cut off from the outside world.

It's a solitary confinement essentially.

And then what they're, what they're risking or facing, I mean, they're facing to die in detention.

They're facing, you know, like Gorinov, who is very ill by now, Kara Murza.

I'm so glad that Kara Murza is now free because when he came out through the prisoner swap in August, Kara Murza said, I honestly thought I will die in detention.

He received 25 years imprisonment for a speech against the war is one of the reasons but for his dissident standing, a Pulitzer Prize winning winning journalist as well.

So yes, they risk anything from death like Navalny or to really their health being completely taken away from them.

And that's why we need as international community to double the efforts to free these people.

And I think the government should not shy away from talking to the Russian authorities and really demanding the release of the political prisoners.

Equally, the release of the Ukrainian deported civilians and military and children, I mean all of these people who are kept in the in the Russian prisons system under torturous conditions should be released.

There is no doubt about it.

[Other language spoken]

And Laura, yeah, thanks for taking my question on 0 Swiss News Agency.

First, some of your colleagues who are special mandate holders have characterised similar situation as crimes against humanity and and even some who didn't have to deal with war situations, but really persecution of of internal opposition and internal human rights defenders.

So why did you decide this is the second report where you don't mention any anything like like that and now you have strong words, structural state sponsored violations.

Why did you decide not to go for that, for that path?

That's the first question.

And the second question is we we saw three days ago again wives of Russian soldiers demonstrating in front of the Ministry of Defence.

Is there an increase in terms of protests and arrests from soldiers wives, Thank you.

There an increase in.

Yes, your first question if we don't hear you very well guys and on on online, but whatever we can hear.

Your first question was why I haven't qualified.

I don't know which situation in Ukraine or in Russia as crimes against humanity.

Is that your question, Lauren, can you please clarify maybe which country are you talking about Russia or Ukraine?

[Other language spoken]

In in Russia, because we could see, for instance, the the the fact find mission on Venezuela, which has to deal with an internal situation saying that the authorities perpetrated systematic violations which could amount to crimes against humanity.

And here in your last report, the the way you you you qualify the things state sponsored structural violations look pretty much like what was mentioned by by the fact finding mission on Venezuela.

The question is why don't you go the, the path to qualify that in terms of whether it it could be crimes against humanity or not?

Well, first of all, maybe you, you contain the answer in your question.

I'm not a fact finding mission.

I'm one person with a very limited team and my role is not to investigate crimes against humanity.

I, I was leading the team of the **** commissioner's examination on Belarus.

And this is where we did find crimes against humanity after investigating the evidence.

Now the role of a special rapporteur is not investigating.

I mean, I'm not allowed by the Russian authorities to enter the Russian Federation even by myself, let alone with the team of investigators.

So crimes against humanity in order to be because I've done it, I can tell you it's a mathematics.

You need to absolutely with mathematical precision, collect evidence first hand, assess them and then arrive at the end of a very long process to the conclusion it's not anecdotal.

I think as a former journalist, I know that we as journalists, or as in my previous role, we sometimes use this very lightly.

But behind war crimes, crimes against humanity, the whole International Criminal law, for example, but also behind international humanitarian law, you have absolute precision in investigation and providing evidence of your claims.

So that wasn't my role to investigate crimes against humanity in Russia.

I'm glad you know, there is other mandates like the Commission of inquiry on Ukraine, which whose role similarly to the Commission of inquiry in Venezuela, the Commission of inquiry are these bodies charged by the Human Rights Council with the role of investigative body.

But in the case of Russia, there is ICC, there is the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court.

And I think he is investigating already on several counts.

As you know, there is an arrest warrants issued against the president of Russia and against the children's Commissioner, at least on the count of the Ukrainian children.

And he's been involved, as far as I know, in investigation.

So that's my answer.

But you can always ask the Human Rights Council to actually interest me as a single person orchestra to actually go and investigate further or to give me a team of investigators.

And I'll be happy to investigate all the International Criminal law violations or humanitarian law as well.

But not for now as a special rapporteur.

Not my role really.

As the second part, whether there's been an increase in, yes, I mean, monitoring what's happening with because you know, during the Chechnya war, there was a very solid mothers movement, soldiers mothers movement.

And this movement in some ways I would think was able to, to kind of stop the war, the war in Chechnya because mothers we're very strongly going into Chechnya, even negotiating, getting soldiers out.

But also it it was a particularly strong movement in Russia.

Now with this war of aggression against Ukraine.

First of all, the soldiers mothers committees were dismantled because they were accused of being foreign agents, of being, you know, like part of the civil society movement, the true soldiers mothers committees.

Then there are these kind of pro government wives and mothers and family members of mobilised officers and mobilised in the special military operation.

We've seen the meeting the president of Russia, we see them, you know, kind of day.

They carry the pro government message of how the war is necessary and the special military operation is an honour for their for their mobilised male relatives.

So of course now with the active hostilities moving inside Korsk region, I noticed and by the way, my report was already finished because it takes a long time through the UN bureaucracy to issue a report.

So my report was already prepared when the Korsk events were unfolding.

But what I'm on it, what I saw was all these mothers of young Russian conscripts, these are the 18 year olds.

Because in Russia you have you have official and mandatory military service of two years for 18 year old men.

So suddenly there was a huge activity by the mothers of these 18 year old conscripts who for some reason were put to guard the border between Russia and Ukraine in Kursk region.

So the society in Russia became really shocked by their president officially promising that no 18 year old conscripts will be sent in to fight against Ukraine or to have anything to do with the war, because they're just part of training of their regular obligatory military service.

And then they discovered that this was a lie and their sons, without any training, were actually sent on the border.

And when the Ukrainian army incursions happened, the ones that were guarding the Russian border with was by and large these 18 year olds.

So yes, we're seeing now a different signs of the mothers of the wives getting the movement trying to get more active.

But you have to understand that I, I will never forget the some wives who had very negative message for their government.

They wanted their husbands back.

And this was a few months ago.

They were followed by the police, by the Secret Service through their one of their open demonstrations.

And I noticed how smart they were.

They actually went in front of the sacred for the Russians monument of the Unknown Soldier.

It's, you know, with a flame there and they put flowers there.

So the police couldn't really come and arrest them because it would have been, it was all televised, you know, on television.

It would have been really crackdown on women who were only having one message.

We want our husbands back from Ukraine, from the war, but there has been a crackdown on this movement and I think they are monitoring them.

I, I'm worried about this women because the mothers, the wives, because if they continue criticising the war effort, they will be next as political prisoners or detainees.

[Other language spoken]

If there are no more questions, we'll close this press conference because we've gone overtime.

Also, thank you very much to Miss Katerova for being here and answering the questions.

And thank you all for joining.

Thank you very much.

And come tomorrow at the ID.