UN Geneva - Multimedia Newsroom : HRC - Press conference of the UN Special Rapporteur on Afghanistan

Good afternoon, everyone.

And welcome to this press conference today we have with us Mr Richard Bennett,

who is a special rapporteur on the human rights situation in Afghanistan.

We will be

begin with opening remarks from the special rapporteur,

after which we will open the floor to questions.

Mr. Bennett, you have the floor.

Good afternoon.

Thank you very much, Maya. Good afternoon, everyone. As you may be aware,

I

presented my latest report on the human rights situation in Afghanistan

to the Council yesterday afternoon.

It sets out

a stark reality

that the human rights situation under the Taliban

continues to deteriorate.

This crisis needs to remain

in the spotlight

before I go any further and I'll try to keep my remarks

pretty brief.

I'd just like to have a word or two

about human rights.

Human rights are universal and indivisible.

It's critical that they are

seen as part of the solution. Going forward,

we must emphasise convergence over division

in Afghanistan.

And

after 45 years

and more of conflict and occupation,

Afghanistan is a grievously

damaged society

that also displays remarkable resilience.

And in a

continuing polarised environment,

finding common ground is desperately needed

today in Afghanistan,

women and girls don't enjoy the right to education above Grade six.

They're being erased from public life.

Even

mandatory clothing

regulations are leading

to arbitrary arrest and detention.

This leads to concerns about

gender persecution and even discussions about the

characterised. As as gender apartheid,

we have documented

public executions and corporal punishments recently.

Peaceful descent is stifled.

Violence and the threat of violence

are used with impunity to control and instil fear

in the population.

Those responsible for this

must be held to account.

There is also

a desperate humanitarian and economic crisis.

This is not the moment

to forget Afghanistan in any sense.

For the international community.

It's of the

utmost importance to steadfastly insist

that normalisation

and integration of Afghanistan

back into the

international community

will require

significant improvements

in human rights from the Taliban,

including the situation

of women and girls.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr Bennett.

The special rapporteur will now take questions.

We'll begin with the questions in the room,

and then we'll move on to those of you online.

Uh,

good afternoon, Special

Bennett. Um, a question about the Taliban, actually, and how one can work with them.

obviously you have to engage, uh, with them on on human rights.

But how do you do so without,

as the report says, normalising

the authority? How How do you strike that balance? Thank you.

Sorry. I don't think it's difficult to engage without normalising when one,

is dealing with human rights.

Human rights advocacy

is often about

dealing with difficult situations and difficult actors. Reluctant actors.

Um, but there are ways to do it,

and what I consider is that

every conversation by the international community, be it un agencies

or states,

should include human rights

and the situation of women in

the agenda. No matter what the rest of the conversation is about.

It might be about the economy or about agriculture

or about technology, but it needs to

include human rights and every face to face meeting

should. If it's a delegation, it should be a delegation that includes women.

And those women

should be speaking directly to the Taliban

because

the idea of a,

uh AAA normal

society is that it includes both genders or all genders. In fact,

thank you.

And if you could please remember to state your

name and your media outlet before the question.

Wait, I appreciate,

Um, any other questions in the room?

No. So we'll move on to, uh, those online, Uh, we can start with, uh, Yuri from RV.

Yes. Thank you for taking my question.

This is hard to speak about Afghanistan

without speaking about politics and especially geopolitics.

So, Mister Bennett, you took your mandate a

year after the

chaotic departure of American forces from Afghanistan

after 20 years of occupation.

Uh,

do you feel today that anything has been seriously done during

this occupation to improve the human rights situation in the country?

Or do you feel that on the contrary, things have only gotten worse?

And did the hasty dispatcher of Western troops have a

direct impact on the situation that you are describing today?

Who should be considered responsible for what is happening now? Thank you.

Thanks for your question, Yuri.

Yes, I do.

My assessment is that human rights did improve during the 20 years of the Republic.

However, the situation

was

far from perfect.

And we all know that

I was there

from 2003.

On and off, right up until 2021.

Um, with gaps.

I wasn't there the whole time

and

ask Afghan women,

Did they a

gun? Children?

Did they observe any

improvements in their human rights du during that period?

When I ask them,

they tell me that they do.

They did.

But there were problems.

It was not a golden era.

There were serious problems with civilian casualties

committed by all parties to the conflict.

There were also problems

due to corruption

and due to narcotics and due to mismanagement.

And

there was torture

and there was arbitrary detention from time to time.

But there was a constitution.

There were elections, perhaps imperfect.

There were institutions like a national human rights institution,

which in my view, did excellent work.

So yes,

there were improvements. It's false to claim that there were none in my view.

But, you know, ask others, Ask the Afghans who lived through that.

The second part of your question.

I have

continually supported accountability mechanisms, accountability, processes.

But you'll note

that when I've spoken about that,

I have also spoken about

those processes needing to apply

not only to the last 2.5 years since August 2021

but further back as well

and to involve all parties to a conflict in which human rights

were violated.

So

that is something I understand that others, including the High Commissioner,

have been asked to look at and we will be reporting on

in the September session this year

on my part,

I will be reporting again in June,

Uh, on the

devastating, systematic

and widespread discrimination against women and girls.

And part of that report will

focus on

necessary accountability mechanisms

as well as focusing on

what needs to be done to bring about change so that the that half of the population

gets back on the path to equality. It was never there.

It was part of the way there.

There has been a definite setback,

and this needs to be turned around. Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh, do we have other questions?

yes. Uh,

Mr

uh,

riaad, but, uh, online,

please. Go ahead.

Hi. My name's Riaz A.

But I'm the bureau chief for Afghanistan and Pakistan at the Associated Press.

I'm currently in Kabul. And

what you were saying about

human rights and normalisation

in my conversations with the Taliban,

they don't feel like they are doing anything wrong with regards to human rights.

they believe that their

interpretation of Sharia law

necessitates these decrees on education, segregation

and wardrobe.

And

senior members of the Taliban, including the supreme leader,

have stated over and over that

they wish to see the imposition of Sharia in every aspect

of Afghan life and every element of Afghan society. So

when they are coming from that position and you are coming from your position,

where is the common ground for discussion and conversation

and thanks

and thanks for joining from

Kabul on a very pertinent question. And that's why

I

began my remarks by

discussing

or mentioning the polarised environment and

how we need to strive to find common ground.

I'm aware of

the

position of the Taliban on those matters, but I would also add

that they have not.

Res resulted from the Universal Declaration of Human Rights

or the seven out of nine major human rights treaties that Afghanistan, as a state,

has ratified over the years

and

secondly,

they are outliers in those views,

particularly in the view about education of girls and women.

There are no other states

in the world

who take the same position,

and that includes

majority Muslim states as well.

Several such states

took the floor yesterday,

as they have in previous meetings of the Human Rights Council

as well as the General Assembly that I've

attended and I understand also in the Security Council

and have

quite

strongly

criticised

the policies against women and girls.

The secretary general has done the same just in Doha last week

when he was meeting with

different countries special envoys.

So they're very much isolated

on this point.

I think it will take time.

But I think it's also

important

for all stakeholders,

especially members of the international community,

to continue to insist

that

human rights, and particularly the rights of women and girls,

are respected

because there's also

a signal that's given

more broadly.

Uh, if

states and others

begin

to consider that this is inevitable

and begin to normalise what is

an

utterly unacceptable situation

when half the population

have basically lost

all their human rights?

Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Bennett. Uh, we have a follow up question from Yuri.

Yes, thanks. This is just a follow up on what the special reporter said.

Does that mean that you are discussing

with the governments of the countries involved in

the occupation to determine the responsibilities during

the murders of civilians that have been documented

during the occupation. Are you talking with them?

And what are they saying about that? Thank you.

My mandate is

on

Afghanistan

and on the people of Afghanistan.

that said,

I have been consistently saying

in public situations, including yesterday and today,

that I

commend those countries

who are beginning

to take serious measures

to

assess their

con,

their contribution or their impact in Afghanistan,

including

accountability measures

for violations for which they may have been responsible.

And

I believe that there should be no

double standards, there should be no selective justice

and that there ought to be a raft of accountability measures

that should include policy changes,

disciplinary measures, including perhaps, criminal justice and other measures

not excluding reparations

to the people of Afghanistan.

This issue

requires much more discussion.

But

I think and I think there is progress in

some places, but it should not

in any way

let

current violators

in Afghanistan, including the Taliban,

and is

off the hook.

They must also be held accountable for violations

in the past

and in the present.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr Bennett. Uh, we have two hands up online.

I'll give the floor to Mr Haberman, followed by,

uh, beza donmez

from an

adult. Thank you.

Uh, yes. Good afternoon. Uh, my name is Janda, Koman

Arai for,

uh, German media. I'm based here in in Geneva at the Palais de N.

Um, I would like to ask you about the prospects for the, uh, women in, um,

Afghanistan.

have you any

sort of hope that they

the the girls and the women may be liberated from this tyranny?

Uh, anytime soon.

I don't

I think there will be a

revolutionary change any time soon

to be frank, but I do have hope,

uh, partly because of the

resilience and strength

of Afghan women and also,

uh uh, some of some afg Afghan men as well

and we are seeing them

through that resilience, finding

some ways to live their lives,

to be able to

continue

to work or to continue to

find some forms of education.

Uh,

so

I hope that this resilience continues, and I also note

that there are very small pockets of hope

with the approval of the Taliban,

including in business, private sector, there seems to be a little more openness.

And also, for example,

in the health sector.

Thank you. We'll take the next question.

Um, thank you. Um, my question will be about the recent public executions,

which are, uh, raising concerns.

There was, like, three last week, and I think the total was around five.

I wanted to to ask

the normal executions continue, but

we are now talking about public executions and how we can stop these executions.

And

the other thing, the other concerning thing was there were flogging incidents,

including a woman and a 12 year old Children

recently.

What would you say about that? And how we can end these

incidents? Thank you.

Thank you.

Together with other

independent experts at the UN, we have

for quite some time now condemned public executions

and also public flogging or flogging corporal punishment of any type

as a violation of human rights.

A violation certainly of the Convention on Civil and Political Rights

and also the Convention Against Torture.

And

just a couple of days ago,

the High Commissioner also

issued a statement on this and called for a moratorium on

the death penalty in

Afghanistan.

We are noting this trend it

is not did not start recently. In fact,

the flogging in particular

has been recorded by my team for at least a year. More than a year now,

in

many different instances in many parts of the country,

uh, we have

also observing, I believe,

an uptick in public executions.

And we condemn this.

It really must stop.

It's contrary to international standards.

Uh,

and

we consider

that this is a very important

indicator for the international community in

relation to

the points I made earlier

about demanding

progress and improvements on human rights

benchmarks before there can be any normalisation

of the current administration in Afghanistan. Thank you.

Thank you. We have a question from

Lili Nabila.

Um, can you hear me?

Yes, we can please go ahead. Can you hear me?

Yes.

Oh,

Ok. Um, I have, uh My question is, um what is your prospect concerning the inclusive

inclusivity of other ethnic groups in Afghanistan

with the Taliban?

Thank you. That's covered

in my recent report and as well in previous reports, Afghanistan

is a

diverse a richly diverse

country,

different ethnicities, religions

and languages.

So moving forward,

there needs to be a focus

not on division

but on coming together

and on

respecting

the

cultural,

religious

and social

elements of all the different groups in Afghanistan.

Inclusivity is crucial.

It is not sufficient.

At present

it there needs to be

considerable progress made in this area.

If there is to be, in my view, sustainable peace.

It's a bedrock of human rights inclusivity.

And as mentioned in my

reply to the previous question,

if there are to be benchmarks

connected to any

kind of political process

for the reintegration of Afghanistan,

this too. The

question of genuine inclusivity needs to be on the table.

Thank you.

Thank you. And we have a follow up question, I think from Baza

Dome.

Uh, yes, thank you. Just a quick one.

You said that for the cessation of such, uh, executions,

international communities should,

uh, put a pressure on the Afghanistan. But

when you're talking about that, what kind of measures you're

specifically talking about it.

Which measures should we take to create that pressure? Thank you.

Well, I think the measure that I've talked about most

is

to use leverage

as regards

any kind of normalisation or

integration. Reintegration

of Afghanistan. I think there is leverage there.

Of course, there are also other measures in terms of condemnation,

and there may be legal measures that can be taken.

I

haven't mentioned previously in

this in this press conference, but I did yesterday in the council

that we are aware that the investigation of

the International Criminal Court is fully under way

in Afghanistan.

And there may be opportunities in other international courts,

including the International Court of Justice,

when it comes to

the

violations of the Ceda

Convention

that Afghanistan is a party to

so speaking out,

refusing to

accept

and normalise

and accountability measures are three that I'll mention here. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr Bennett,

If there are no more questions,

we will proceed and close this press conference.

But thank you very much to everybody for participating.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Maya.

HRC - Press conference of the UN Special Rapporteur on Afghanistan - 01 March 2024